🛒 Supermarket music 🪟 window watching 👀 burn the couch 🛋️ night at the ball 💃🏽

🍭 👂Smoking in cars windows up 🌈 🤸‍♀️

Bonjour.

Today is Monday, April 14, 2025. In case this newsletter is too long, this was a great conversation about music, here’s a short and practically perfect piece, this had me texting to my friends because I was enraged.

xoxo

lauren

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🚨If u only have time for 1 thing🚨

I’m a pretty loyal Song Exploder listener, although I don’t always write about it. This happens a lot with shows I listen to so regularly they become like air to me. Which is one of the many reasons, as a marketer and listener, I love it when shows break the mold a little. Hrishikesh launched a mini-series on the feed called Key Change, that talks to people about music that changed their lives. The episode I recommend so whole heartedly is the one with Hanif Abdurraqib, who talks beautifully about The Clash’s Lost In the Supermarket. Hanif is just really good at talking about music, finding specific things about it that makes it special to him while making it seem hugely relatable to all of us. Here he talks about city supermarkets and why he identified with this song without really understanding what it’s about (suburban supermarkets, among other things) in a way that struck me because I grew up going to supermarkets in the suburbs then in the city when I was older. That difference is vast and interesting. But my favorite part was picturing little Hanif discovering this song so accidentally, the reason can be blamed on his shyness, at the library at one of those old listening stations that don’t exist anymore and that young people could not even imagine. He says he couldn’t take the band home, and that made him love them. We didn’t used to be able to take the band home. Hanif tells this story with beauty and crystal clear clarity, I felt like I was watching it happen in a snow globe, for some reason?

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notes

✨LAST CHANCE to sign up for my Radio Boot Camp Podcast PR 101 class, sign up here! It’s the first time I’m doing it, I am going to be able to get much more specific than I have in the past. This will be good.

✨I’m honored to be speaking in London at The Podcast Show in May! WITH two of my buds, Arielle Nissenblatt and Shreya Sharma. The Podcast Show London brings together thousands from the global podcast community under one roof with industry insight from award-winning creatives, PLUS there’s a week-long festival lineup of live podcasts from in venues across London. Learn more about it here.

✨I’ll be serving as a judge for the 2025 Quill Podcast Awards, which were created to celebrate and recognize standout podcasts pushing the industry forward. (Know of a show that fits the bill? Enter your submissions before April 21st.)

✨You all KNOW I love The Alarmist. They’re hosting a live episode of the show May 2 at 730pm. I’m dying to go, but I can’t. So you should! Tickets here, don’t be late!

✨Two weeks ago, I incorrectly called You Feeling This 2 “You Feeling This.” It’s You Feeling This 2! And it’s very, very good!

✨Arielle spotlighted Moonburn in EarBuds.

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💎podcasts i texted to friends💎

👂The Copernic Affair is a thorough, well-reported piece about Canadian sociology professor Hassan Diab who is accused of carrying out a 1980 bomb attack on a synagogue in Paris. There isn’t evidence that Hassan did it, but he never blatantly says he has zero involvement. (“In Beirut the answer is never yes or no.”) It starts out quite emotionally—with the account of a young Jewish boy whose mother was killed in the blast remembering saying goodbye to her for the last time. (It’s an interesting way to start a show, getting us instantly feeling deeply for the victims of a crime.) The rest of The Copernic Affair is meticulous, hosts Dana Ballout and Alex Atack interview Hassan and anyone close to him who they can find, to find out whether they can find out if he did it or not. This wasn’t a “I must binge this all right now” kind of show. It wasn’t flashy. But it was well worth the listen. Emotion pops up in other places, but what’s interesting is where emotion is included and left out. Dana and Alex are IN the story (they travel to Hassan’s home) but try really hard to keep their opinions out. They talk about this in an episode of Question Everything, where Dana and Alex share a potentially controversial moment that they decided to cut from their own show. Dana is Lebanese-American (remember her from Kerning Cultures!?) and empathizes with this weird dance Hassan is doing by being evasive when questioned. (He never does himself any favors.) She understands the whole “in Beirut the answer is never yes or no” thing and wants so badly for him to understand why the West needs things in black and white. If you didn’t do it, say you didn’t do it! I think we’re all screaming into our listening devices. (Why can’t you just say it?) Copernic Affair is good but even better when you understand all of this. Brian is a really good person to talk about this kind of thing, he reported, with Hamza Syed, The Trojan Horse Affair, an affair not unrelated at all. (Reminder: it was about strange letter a city councillor received in Birmingham, England that included a plot by Islamic extremists to infiltrate the city’s schools.) Brian and Hamza opted to include some stuff Dana and Alex might not have, so the Question Episode episode includes an important conversation about that. Why why did Dana let Brian include something on his show that she didn’t allow on hers? Reporters ask their subjects to be vulnerable all the time, but they’re often afraid to be vulnerable themselves. Listen to The Copernic Affair here. The Question Everything episode here.

How I discovered it: I listened after getting a note from someone at Canadaland but forgot about it until I saw that Brian Reed was talking about it on Question Everything.

👂I think about the Living Room episode of Love + Radio all the time and can remember where I was the first time I was listening to it. (On a commute to meet my friend at a bar in Astoria.) It was just mentioned in a subreddit I was lurking in so I relistened and it wowed me once again. A woman named Diane tells this story about watching her neighbors through their windows in New York City, first getting annoyed at how physically intimate they are being with one another and being kind of forced to witness it. But as time passes she develops her own intimate relationship with them, witnessing something truly heartbreaking. Like I think her heart is broken. And my heart broke again, too. Because Diana takes you through it with her. At first you’re annoyed with these neighbors but then you see them as Diane does, real people through windows and the tragedy they succumb to that ends it all and changes everything. And it’s all one sided. I have heard this before but was holding my breath listening because this story is so piercing, visual, and stark. I think this is the kind of audio storytelling a lot of people are missing these days. If that’s you, listen again. If you have no idea what I’m talking about or have never listened to Love + Radio, listen and get a taste of what really good shit sounds like. Listen here.

How I discovered it: Longtime listener but someone mentioned the episode in a subreddit.

👂Normal Gossip is back with a new season, and a new host, Rachelle Hampton. (I interviewed her back in her ICYMI days.) That can often be a shock to the fanbase system, but in this case, it’s a freakishly seamless transition. The first episode contained not even a squeak, Rachelle has Normal Gossip in her bones. The guest is the hilarious and smart Scaachi Koul. Sometimes I don’t know how to feel when I listen to her, because she will take the joke even if it’s in the spirit of meanness, and I get uncomfortable trying to figure out how serious she’s being sometimes. But she is so, so funny. (And I wrote down some good advice she shared, surely something she’s gleamed through hosting Scamfluencers…”don’t crime and tell.” You can crime but don’t tell, or you can talk about funny crimes that you never do.) It is a very funny episode with a low-stakes story about a couch. But that’s the beauty of Normal Gossip, it doesn’t matter. Haved you ever noticed that it is part of the script for the host to say: “We’re almost at the end of the story, how do you feel?” I wonder if that is in part a signal to us to set our expectations for a probably nothing ending, since our brains are so wired to be hungry for a high-stakes reward. The reward in these episodes is much more intellectual and in that way, this is the kind of content we need more of. Listen here.

How I discovered it: Regular listener but I saw an IG story reminding me that the show was returning last week so I was kind of looking out for it.

👂Bone Valley, Gilbert King’s investigation into the wrongful conviction of Leo Schofield, is a masterpiece. Leo was sentenced to life in prison for the 1987 murder of his wife, Michelle, in Florida. Bone Valley is packed to the gills with boots on the ground reporting, show-stopping conversations, and an upcloseness we don’t always get to hear on true crime shows today. (Gilbert King is a Pulitzer Prize-winning author.) It’s also heartfelt without crossing a line. Gilbert and his producer/co-host uncovered new evidence that proved Leo’s innocence and secured a confession from a guy named Jeremy Scott, who has since confessed multiple times to killing Michelle. Leo is out of jail but his appeals for exoneration have been denied. In season one Gilbert and Kelsey are proving innocence, now they’re proving Jeremy Scott’s guilt via exclusive prison recordings with Jeremy (who confesses to the crime that Leo is behind bars for and other murders) and people in his orbit. We start off with stories from Jeremy’s son, Justin, and Justin’s mom, Jami, who introduces us to a violent scary man. Justin feels guilty to be alive—if his father had been in jail for murdering Michelle in 1987 like he should have been, Justin would not have been born. Jami talks to Gilbert about being young and in love with Jeremy and the terrifying experience of carrying his child. It’s an absolutely gripping, cinematic story that made my stomach hurt. When I found out this was the angle of the second season I wondered if there was enough there, but there is. All the pieces are here for a great series and we are in such good hands with Gilbert and Kelsey. (Kelsey had one of the most memorable moments I can remember on season one, breaking down when looking through evidence of Michelle’s murder.) Listen here.

How I discovered it: Press release about the new season but I subscribe so I would have seen.

👂SAPIENS (former client!,) conversations with anthropologists about what makes us human, definitely makes my list of underrated shows. It is beautiful. Every season is different, every season sings. Every season surprises me! This season, “When Cultures Collide,” explores what happens when cultures intersect, merge, clash, and what those stories tell us about humanity’s shared fate. On “A Linguist’s Night at the Ball,” host Eshe Lewis brings on linguistic anthropologist Dozandri Mendoza takes us to the ballroom scene, literally walking us through a night at a kiki ball in Puerto Rico. It’s as if we are there. Outsiders need some help understanding how a ball functions. Dozandri is our guide, setting the scene and explaining the meanings of the gestures we see, our role and importance as a spectator. I love it when podcasts break away from traditional interviews or conversations. This episode breaks away from most of the storytelling you are used to hearing by turning listeners into active participants. Listen here.

How I discovered it: I think Cat Jaffe introduced me to it, and it was a former client.

👂If you know the podcast space you know what a blessing it is to have Kattie Laur in it. Her show Canardian, which gets Canadians gossiping about their hometowns, is back for a new season. Episode one, with Falen Johnson of Secret Life of Canada, takes us to Brantford, Ontario, (the Bermuda Triangle of Ontario, “a city full of characters and problems,”) where Kattie has recently moved. Falen talks about bouncing back and forth between Brantford, where she got into a lot of trouble, and the Six Nations reservation, where her dad lived. This town also has a CURSED mall, literally someone put a curse on it. There is a lot going on. We get such a good sense of place from these conversations, listening to them makes me realize that talking to people who were child residents of a place is my favorite way to learn about it. I don’t want the history, I want to hear how people who lived there remember the history. Also, our memories of where we grew up are more interesting than the truth. It’s the stuff of fables and legends and rumors and sometimes I guess curses. I don’t want to put words in Falen’s mouth but she seems protective and proud and also slightly traumatized about Brantford. This show is Canadian, but that’s universal.. (When Kattie says she loves being a local there, Falen responds, “I am so curious…) This show is not just a good hang it’s a good way to get to know Canada better. Plus Kattie is always a good hang. Have you listened to The Worst Podcast? Listen here.

How I discovered it: Friend of Kattie

👂I am a big Money for Couples fan, but a recent episode with Katie and Robin was so disappointing, so maddening, and a little scary. So if you need a rage listen, dig in. Ramit talks to Robin, who is a finance bro 7 years older than his fiance Katie, a nurse. Robin makes 4x more than Katie but wants to split costs evenly. Ramit sided too strongly, in my opinion, with Robin, who was controlling (“caught” Katie buying herself a facial by tracking her phone) and infantilizing (when she asks for things to be fair, he says he will more fairly split costs if she can explain that how she will do with the extra money is “productive.”) I think Ramit may have identified with him a bit too much. Katie, meanwhile, has had the confidence completely sucked out of her and doesn’t understand this system that Robin has built to pretty much subsidize his lifestyle off of her. He is richer because of her and she is poorer because of him. This is an interesting but hard listen, not about money but control. Also hard listening to Ramit ignore the insane power balance here. I don’t know if I’ve ever been afraid for a guest before. Listen here.

How I discovered it: Don’t remember how I found it.

👂I was getting drinks with Robin Hopkins, host of Well…Adjusting and her producer and my friend Steph Colbourn and we were talking about my daughter’s adoption story and my hopes of building a community of advocates for her. This has been important to me! I have thoughts! The conversation kind of evolved into a real podcast episode that we recorded when we were home and no longer drinking, and you can listen to it now. It kind of ended up being a therapy session for me, I cry at one point. Adoption is crazy and sometimes I feel kind of alone about it so it felt so good to talk to Robin, who, as a queer mom of two kids, has her own experience making sure her kids have a good support network. This conversation truly is an extension of that conversation that Robin, Steph and I were having at the bar. It feels like that. Listen here.

How I discovered it: I found it before meeting Robin when searching for shows for a client, loved it, and become friends with Robin later.

👂There are numerous shows about seemingly boring things that are actually quite interesting and I can’t say I’m always a fan of the genre. I’m not into facts or trivia or learning things, really. I like to be told a story. (Although one of my favorite shows of all time was The Boring Talks.) But! There is only ONE Alex Schmidt, and there is only ONE Secretly Incredibly Fascinating, a show that stands out for so many reasons. One reason, for the story seekers out there, is that storytelling is woven in to each episode. Each one is a deep dive into something mundane—popcorn ceilings, the letter Q, machetes. The format and production are well done, it’s a community-driven show that feels like it was made with care and love and joy and curiosity. Alex is interesting in his own right (he was the host and producer of The Cracked Podcast which was so good I still listen to very, very old episodes and old ones are VERY hard to find; he created the bison emoji; etc.) and brilliant (like literally, he was a 4-Time Jeopardy! Champion,) but not the kind of brilliant where he wants to rub it in your face. He is one of the kindest people on the internet, maybe? His co-host Katie Goldin is also a freakish combo of nice and smart. (She’s also the host of Creature Feature and she always sneaks in tons of animal facts.) They’re both funny. The podcast is this safe, nerdy space that ultimately makes you appreciate the world more and actually think a little harder about things you might otherwise overlook. ANYWAY I loved the episode on Easter eggs, which I actually went in thinking were interesting. I mean you guys know me, I’m a sucker for religious stuff and ridiculous campy things and Easter eggs are both. They’re so weird. (Katie’s coolest animal fact this time was that some birds actually have immaculate conceptions just like Mary, laying eggs without fertilization?!) Easter is a very strange holiday, let’s embrace it. Listen here especially if you might need some fun and relevant facts to whip out during brunch.

How I discovered it: Followed Alex from Cracked

👂I love you!

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👋q & a & q & a & q & a👋

Gilbert King

Gilbert King is a Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Devil in the Grove, and the host and producer of the narrative podcast from Lava for Good, Bone Valley.

Tell us Bone Valley’s origin story. How did you first hear about Leo Schofield?
I was speaking at a judges’ conference in Florida when one of the judges approached me afterward, handed me his business card, and told me he knew of an innocent man—Leo Schofield—serving a life sentence in prison. Curious, I called him a few days later. I thought the story was fascinating, and I’ve spent the last six years of my life working on it.

When you were making it, how much did you go back and forth with Leo and his family? Did they have any idea what it was going to be like or was it all a surprise to them when it was released?
We visited Leo nearly a dozen times in prison and stayed in constant contact with his family and his lawyers. When they learned I was doing a podcast instead of a book, they weren’t sure what to expect—Leo didn’t even know what a podcast was. But we spent years on the research and investigation, and ultimately, he trusted us. I think everyone was surprised by how it was received. Even us.

What is it about you that makes you such a good investigative reporter? What are the qualities that signal someone could do this?
Bryan Stevenson talks a lot about being “proximate.” It means getting close to the people and the problems you’re trying to understand—bearing witness, listening, and building relationships. I don’t think there’s any other way to tell these kinds of stories without going all in.

What’s the recipe for a good investigative crime story?
For me, a good investigative crime story isn’t just about the crime, the victim, or the perpetrator. The crime is the entry point to propel the narrative—but the story has to reveal something larger about power, injustice, or the failures of the system.

What can you tell us about the new season of Bone Valley?
In Season One, we followed Leo’s fight to prove his innocence in the murder that kept him in prison for 36 years. In Season Two, we turn to Jeremy—the man who confessed to killing Leo’s wife, Michelle. It’s a more personal story, shaped by the relationship I’ve maintained with Jeremy as he reckons honestly with his actions and the damage left behind—and by the people from his past, along with others newly drawn to his story, who are stepping forward to help him reclaim some part of his humanity.

How the fact that this was audio-only storytelling hinder you?
Audio is powerful, but its weakness is that when voices are gone, they’re gone. We had to rely on transcripts or secondhand accounts, which made the voices we could capture all the more important in bringing the story to life.

What’s a podcast you love that everyone already knows about?
Mystery Show by Starlee Kine is the greatest podcast ever made.

What’s a podcast you love that not enough people know about?
I don’t know if love is the right word, but I deeply admire Hunting Warhead (CBC) for its fearless reporting and for telling an incredibly hard story with care and precision.