🤪 Roasting celebrity podcasts 🧑🍳 chef's kiss 🌊 an improvised musical at sea 🐢 the inverted pyramid of conspiracy theories👩🏼💻
🍭 👂 You're in for a treat! 🌈 🤸♀️
Bonjour!
Today is Monday, September 19. There are 16 days until I go on my next Disney Cruise. In case this email is too long, I finally, finally listened to this (and loved,) it’s about time we have this, if Kevin McCallister tried to pull off a terrorist attack here.
xoxo lp
ps If you are pleased with Podcast The Newsletter, please spread the word.
👋q & a & q & a & q & a👋
Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor
Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor are the hosts of Ear Hustle. Follow Earlonne on Twitter here. Follow Ear Hustle on Twitter here and Instagram here.
Do you have any interesting stories about your fans?
Earlonne: Oooh. I find them very empathetic to my plight, such as: I can just put out a PSA like Hey, I’m looking for a beach house for my birthday! And I get so many different offers from a gang of different listeners, like Hey I got a condo over here, or Hey I got Big Bear, so for my birthday a couple of years ago I had Big Bear for about a week. Individuals look past a person’s past and look at a person for today, so I appreciate that about our listeners. I don’t like to say fans, I say listeners. Seems like we hella celebrities and shit, my friends always remind me, we’re Z-list celebrities.
Which episode was the most difficult to make?
Nigel: Sorry Means Nothing, about people who have committed what are called sex crimes — in this case, with children. It’s a topic that very few people want to think about, and even very thoughtful, empathetic people shut down when that subject comes up. To figure out how to tell that story, and talk about really uncomfortable things, while making a story that people wouldn’t just turn off immediately, that was challenging. And to really examine our own feelings about that subject, and do it as fairly as we do any other story — to let people tell their stories and have them not feel judged — that was tough.
How have you changed as people and podcasters since you started working together?
Nigel: Well, I learned how to become a podcaster, learned how to collaborate (because for 30 years I had a solo studio practice), learned how to rely on others, learned how to have fun while working with others, and it has opened up all kinds of adventures for me and E to have together.
How do you approach incarcerated people? Are they hesitant to tell their stories?
Earlonne: When I was inside, it was pretty easy. In the beginning people were skeptical of what we were doing, but when the word got out, through their family, like Have you heard of Ear Hustle, it became easier. But you still have people who are skeptical of talking with us, and it's for no other reason that some people don’t talk to the media. But I just tap in with people, like Man, let’s talk about a story, what story you got to talk about. I might overhear something and approach a person after the fact. I definitely ask them and if I feel like I really really really want them, then I’ll be like, Look bro, don’t continue to be a statistic, people listen to what we do! To me, the biggest issue is convincing people who have been locked up for 30+ years to get involved — dudes that have been there since the ’70s, because they have a strict “we don’t talk to the media.”
How has Ear Hustle changed since the idea was born?
Nigel: Very little. Well, not in the intent. It’s changed in that the team is much bigger, we have a larger audience … but the idea behind it, I could pull out the page we wrote on October 5, 2015, when Earlonne and I sat down to hatch this idea — and what we dreamed of creating is what Ear Hustle has become. We decided we wanted to create a podcast where we would be the co-hosts and the people who escorted listeners through the story, that inside and outside perspectives were really important, that we were gonna tell everyday stories, first-person narratives, and we were gonna mix emotions together. So all the main ingredients are shockingly the same, we had a clear idea of what we wanted to do. The main thing that has changed is that Earlonne is out of prison — that’s a big difference. And the team has gotten bigger, and we travel more, and we have a life outside San Quentin (whereas at first, our idea was that the show would always be set in San Quentin). The concept has remained pretty steady, which makes me happy.
Earlonne: We’ve added an outside component — a formerly incarcerated component — we’ve added more women into the mix, we travel a lot more to go into other prisons, so it has changed tremendously since the inception. We probably get less media attention, less interviews — when we first started, we had the Today show, all of them. I think the basic concept is still the same — we want to share important components of people’s lives — the formula is still the same.
If you were going to start another podcast — don’t worry about whether anyone would like it or any of the logistics — what would it be?
Nigel: It would be a podcast about my parents, based on the photo challenge I do with them on Instagram [@nigelpoor]. Every day (we recently hit day 500), I send my parents a challenge to answer photographically, and they send me back a photograph along with a brief written response. It’s really allowed them to exist in my world as something far beyond being parents. It’s a project that explores the relationships between adult children and their parents; it’s also about aging, where we find worth, who we give a voice to, as well as exploring how and if we allow older people to be three-dimensional, funny, smart, sad, all of the things that people are. Although it’s about my parents, it's about more universal questions and what types of relationships we have with our parents, and can we treat them with as much care and curiosity as we treat other people. I realize that I ask strangers questions all the time, but I don’t give my parents the same consideration.
What’s a podcast you love that not enough people know about?
Nigel: I’m going to say Futile Attempts by Kim Noble. Everyone I’ve recommended it to hates it. I love it. He has my kind of sense of humor, which is observing how people act — it’s very dark and odd. He’s a comedian, he talks a lot about his life and the things he’s struggling with, but he observes human nature, people’s foibles, and his own foibles. Some of the things he does are incredibly embarrassing, but they’re psychologically incredibly astute. I want to meet somebody who likes this podcast … but I have yet to meet that person.
Earlonne: I’m gonna add one: Wrongful Conviction by Jason Flom. It’s a very interesting take on the criminal justice system, people that have been wrongly convicted and are on death row, and watching how they assemble celebrities and people in society to get involved in stopping executions of people who are clearly innocent. It’s a great podcast that I think people maybe don’t listen to.
🚨If u only have time for 1 thing🚨
I’m a fan of all of Rebecca Lavoie’s work, but my favorite thing about her is that she’s one of the few people calling bullshit on bad podcasts. The show she co-hosts with her husband Kevin Flynn and fellow true-crime writers Toby Ball and Lara Bricker, Crime Writers On… takes a critical look at all the true crime we’re consuming, and taste-maker Rebecca is always able to break down what makes a show good and the flaws that keep it from being better. She’s putting her critical eye to celebrity podcasts with her son Henry on Celebrity Podcast Podcast. I’m not alone when I complain about the huge influx of celebrity shows, but technically, are they that bad? (So far, with three episodes covered—Megan Markle’s Archetypes, Alec Baldwin’s Here’s the Thing and goop, the answer is yes.) I listened to the first episode of Archetypes but Rebecca and Henry were able to point out inexcusable things about it that made it pretty much a pile of nonsense and confirm things that made me uncomfortable. They don’t hold back. It feels good to hear someone speak honestly about these podcasts hosted by non-podcasters, people who have been given a mic but don’t seem to know what they’re doing or maybe have never actually, I dunno, listened to a podcast before.
oh hey
✨Evo Terra has launched The End, a sort of podcast newsletter focused exclusively on completed fiction podcasts. It's short-form, getting just to the "meat." So much of podcast marketing is building buzz for something new, here’s your chance to discover something that’s simply new to you.
✨Via Lifehacker: 11 of the Best New Podcasts to Add to Your Queue
✨Sign up for my Radio Bootcamp session scheduled for 10/3! We’re talking podcast marketing, you’ll learn tons and we’ll have a lot of fun.
✨Via Podcast Marketing Magic: 4.5 things everyone wants to know about podcast marketing + 4.5 MORE things everyone wants to know about podcast marketing = 9 things everyone wants to know about podcast marketing.
✨Adela and I were guests on Podcast Playlist to talk about Feed the Queue, and we had fun getting to nerd out about podcasts and offer some show recommendations. When I’m on a podcast about podcasts, I truly feel like I’m in a safe space. Listen here.
✨Arielle Nissenblatt also spotlighted All the Wiser in her newsletter and podcast.
💎BTW💎
🎙️I have heard that the story of John Nuttall and Amanda Korody reads a little like a John le Carré novel if it was written by the Trailer Park Boys. I think it’s more like if Kevin McCallister tried to pull off a terrorist attack. John and Amanda’s story, from homelessness and addiction to trying to place a bomb at British Columbia’s legislature, had them at the center of a lengthy RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) terror investigation. It’d be wild enough if the story ended there. They were completely ill-equipped (non-equipped) to pull of any of their terrorist dreams. But were they really their dreams? They are suing several members of the investigation team, calling their work a "travesty of justice.” The B.C. Supreme Court found that the police had indeed entrapped John and Amanda. So it’s nuts. And also sad. John and Amanda were depressed, lost, alone, and ripe for manipulation. Pressure Cooker is a tight piece that puts you immediately into the action, catching you up on John and Amanda’s background and letting you in on all the footage pulled from the RCMP. You’re a fly on the wall, with all the knowledge we have now about how both sides botched their missions, and it’s up to you to decide just how far out of line the RCMP went. How exactly do two people go from just trying to get by to plotting a terrorist plot? Find out for yourself.
🎙️Off Book is an improv musical podcast—Jessica McKenna and Zach Reino literally make a musical on the spot. I was late to this podcast because it’s been running so long, I assumed it was one ongoing musical and that it would take me too long to catch up. I was pleasantly surprised (and super impressed) to see that there’s a brand new musical every week. It’s so good it seems hard to believe they’re coming up with this stuff in real time, but just wacky enough that you know it is. The music is great and the lines are funny, but what’s funnier is picturing real-ass adults putting this together. If you haven’t listened yet, the Fear of the Ocean episode with Mary Lou is hilarious and a good place to start. Two sisters, whose parents are taken by the sea, go on a closure-venture aboard The Dry Salad, without any nautical know-how. They meet up with a Sigma Ki party boat and adorable little turtles that pop onto the deck and (spoiler alert) they have a hilarious reunion with their parents. I wish I had 1/1000th of the talent of Jessica, Zach, and Mary Lou. Listen here. (h/t Anne Baird)
🎙️The 2019 James Beard Award Winner Copper & Heat is technically a restaurant podcast, but the production is top notch and the topics are so wide-ranging and interesting, I’d call it a people podcast, too, that would appeal to anyone. It delivered the first episode in its first season last week, about the snobbiness of culinary foam and a Michelin-starred restaurant in Leese, Italy which served a 27-course meal of “artistic” food that included a bizarre “chef’s kiss” plaster mold full of it. (The experience was literally full of it.) Geraldine DeRuiter aka The Everywhereist wrote a critical review of the restaurant that went viral, and the chef responded with this out-there metaphor about horses, defending his choice to serve non-food at a restaurant. It turned into a battle bigger than Geraldine ever could have imagined—being a woman with an opinion on the internet isn’t always easy. This is a dishy story about the restaurant industry, the internet, art, assholes, sexism, and what we talk about when we talk about food. Listen here.
🎙️Jennette McCurdy’s I’m Glad My Mom Died is everywhere, and it was the focus of a recent episode of Celebrity Book Club with Chelsea Devantez. Chelsea’s conversation about it with Marcella Arguello will make you want to read the book, but if you’re not planning to do it, this conversation highlights its dishiest parts, and adds important commentary to some of Jeanette’s most heart-breaking and disturbing stories about her mom. We get to see a new side of Marcella “Woke Bully” Arguello, who gets teary-eyed about the general treatment of child actors. Just like the book seems to be hard to put down, it’s hard to stop listening to these smart women break down this explosive memoir. Listen here.
🎙️Spooky season is upon us and here’s something super spooky: Hazard NJ, created and hosted by Jordan Gass-Poore’, which looks at the impacts of climate change on hazardous Superfund sites in New Jersey. Episode one starts innocently enough, a woman is skating on a pond in Bridgewater, New Jersey. But underneath lurks toxic waste left over from the chemical producer American Cyanamid’s operations from years ago. As climate change fuels more intense storms in the region, these ponds risk flooding and spilling over into the nearby community. Other stories include sludge, sinkholes, “black mayonnaise,” and more stuff that sounds like it was pulled from Jeepers Creepers. New Jersey is home to the largest number of Superfund sites in the country and federal cleanup is underway but expensive, and climate change is making it worse. Jordan is digging through the muck. Listen here.
🎙️Do you ever hear about a podcast that everyone loved but completely slipped your radar, and you think, how on earth did I miss that one? Was I absent that day? I saw a ton of excitement over the announcement of a Bear Brook season two and realized I had never listened to a second of season one. So I binged the entire thing over the weekend and highly recommend you do the same, even if you’ve already listened. The whole “detective map with push pins and string” image is overused in all of true crime, but that’s truly what this podcast felt like. Unidentified bodies are linked to mysteries all over the country, with one man who has flown under the radar for years after committing theeeeeee most heinous of crimes at the center. The points of this show are perfectly plotted, keeping the listener in a constant state of wonder, and the conclusion is satisfying. Now I’m on the “excited for season two” train. We have to wait until winter. Listen here.
🎙️Kate Winkler Dawson (host of Wicked Words) and Paul Holes (a retired cold case investigator responsible for cracking the Golden State Killer case) have come together for Buried Bones, a show that revisits cases from the 1700s through the 1960s. Kate presents a case on each episode, and Paul listens and takes a fresh look, asking questions about the investigation as if it were a contemporary one. When I saw that the first episode was more than an hour long, I almost didn’t listen, but ended up listening twice. It’s about Manhattan millionaire and founder of Rice University William Marsh Rice, who was murdered by his own greedy lawyer Albert T. Patrick and valet Charles F. Jones—or was he? Could he possibly have died of natural causes? Kate and Paul sift through the old evidence and files to see how the case was handled, what went right and what went wrong, and if the resolution (Patrick was sentenced to death at Sing Sing and Jones was sentenced to life in prison but was later freed, only to commit suicide) was just. The money Patrick and Jones were trying to get their hands on went directly to build Rice, so we get a wild murder story and the untold history of a major university in one. Listen here.
🎙️Lauren Ober’s The Loudest Girl in the World illustrates Lauren’s journey into discovering as a grow-ass adult that she’s autistic. Intimate conversations with her family and partner (oh my god hello Hana Rosin!…who, has a child on the autism spectrum and was one of the first people to say, ‘you might want to look into this’) invite us to see what it’s like to realize something like this about yourself that explains everything but also make you reidentify yourself without forgetting who you are. There aren’t enough podcasts telling neurodivergent stories (EarBuds just had a great issue spotlighting some) so this podcast is valuable in that aspect alone, but the format of this show makes us feel we are going through this discovery with a friend. (A very loud friend.) Listen here.
🎙️Unladylike is back with a two-parter that will turn everything you think about conspiracy theorists on its head. Part one goes back to pre QAnon days, introducing us to the predominantly white suburban women who had a hand in mainstreaming right-wing, antifeminist conspiracy theories. (You go, girls?) And part two hosts an interesting discussion with TikTok misinformation researcher Abbie Richards about the rise of Pastel QAnon and her inverted pyramid of conspiracy theories that went viral. Then, our favorite person ever Bridget Todd tackles a question people don’t often ask—why would women and marginalized people feel pulled toward conspiracy theories? You get to hear her say “rat fuck” a lot, it feels good. Together, these episodes felt like a ticket to a feminist conspiracy theory panel. Listen here and here.
🎙️Babs Gray (Lady to Lady, Britney’s Gram, Toxic, co-founder of the #FreeBritney movement) is documenting her year off drinking and taking us through her sobriety journey, day-by-day, with Babstinence. She’s speaking to sober people (the first interview is with Steve Hernandez) and completely opening up with her fears and the challenging things about herself that she faces as she realizes why she was partying so hard. Sobriety podcasting is having a moment (Gill Tietz has launched Sober Powered Media, a network of sober podcast) and Babstinence is really showcasing what it’s like exactly, for those who are sober-curious or who have been through this before. In episode one Babs said she’s nervous doing this so publicly…I say, it’s okay if you mess up! Let us know, we’re here for you and want to know all of your ups and downs. It’s such a good name she could keep the show going forever, abstaining from something new each season. Listen here.
🎙️This month on The 11th, Paula Barros is our tour guide of a pink apartment complex between Miami Beach and mainline Florida called The Lido, where she is tenant. If there was one word to describe this episode, it’s BRIGHT. I felt the Florida sun, the colors of old Miami, and Paula’s sparkling neighbors. (One guy is making his way through his bucket list and Paula gets him to an open mic; an amateur taxidermist Payami calls himself that because it rhymes with Miami.) This isn’t an action packed piece, but it will bring you happiness. It’s a little pink slice of heaven. Listen here.
🎙️The New York Times is tackling our new level of political disconnect in The Run-Up, a show hosted by Times reporter Astead Herndon. The first intro episode sets things up with some voice mails from Americans who are concerned about the direction our country is taking, which makes this show feel alive and engaging. Then it explains how we might have gotten from the GOP autopsy in 2013 (which had republicans worried that the growing number of diverse voters would go democrat) to a large number of Latinos voting for Donald Trump in 2016. Kellyanne Conway, who was interviewed on this episode, was not losing sleep over in 2013, apparently. In a conversation with Astead she seamlessly goes from making a few points about American voters that actually make sense to spewing absolute nonsense. It’s interesting. This show seems to be a collage of voices that together paints a picture about how we got where we are, and how the democrats could turn a W into an L. Listen here.
🎙️Out of Office is a travel podcast that defines travel broadly, from local day trips to high-flyin’ overseas adventures. Every episode, Ryan Davis and Kiernan Schmitt dig into one topic—ranging from the serious to the silly, the practical to the outlandish—and give advice on how to get out there and explore the world. Some episodes are area-specific, others more general, like The Gilded Age In New York & Newport With “Bowery Boys” creator Greg Young. Listen here.
🎙️I love you!
This week we’re getting to peek into the listening life of Lara Dalch, creator and host of She Knows the Way, a podcast about deciding what’s next when doing what’s expected no longer feels right. (She Knows the Way was recently nominated for an International Women's Podcast Award.) Lara also develops and produces podcasts for purpose-driven organizations of all sizes. She has a particular passion for projects that amplify the stories of women––including her latest podcast project, Black Her Stories, produced in partnership with social impact organization Nourish; and an upcoming audio project for Fast Company that explores how the pandemic changed women's workforce participation.
The app you use to listen: Pocket Casts. It may not be the latest and greatest option, but I'm a creature of habit.
What speed do you listen to podcasts? Usually 1x, although I've been known to speed through news podcasts at 2x. (Because who can even take listening to the news these days. Ugh.)
How do you discover new shows? Mostly via recommendations from other shows I listen to. I also check out shows I hear about from the Pod People community and occasionally things that are promoted to me inside Pocket Casts.
One show you love that everybody loves. This American Life. I'm such a cliché.
One show you love that most people don't know about. I recently binged Lauren Shippen's The Bright Sessions. While a lot of people who read this newsletter have likely heard of Lauren, I find that many non-podcasting industry folks have not. I've turned several people onto The Bright Sessions—and to the idea of audio fiction in general—and they have become equally obsessed with it. I also recently discovered Twenty Thousand Hertz, which is a fun show for serious audio/sound nerds.
Unpopular opinion: Coffee with milk is not coffee.
Mental health tip: Self care is not the cure for burnout. Here's why.
Anything else you want to say? I just want to send deep love and appreciation to all of the independent podcast makers out there. It's not an easy road and I appreciate you all so much!