Funny ghosts👻, propaganda + an Interview with Today Explained's Sean Rameswaram

Bonjour.

There is a small, weird part of my brain that thinks Inside Trader Joe's is the best podcast of all time. How a huge corporation is able to produce 20-minute company commercials and propaganda that people love listening to (Trader Joe's has hit #5 on Apple Podcasts) astounds me. I have listened to every single episode, and while I blame my fascination in the project from a marketing perspective, sometimes I wonder if I actually enjoy it. I can't tell.

On Inside Trader Joe's, Tara (marketing director) and Matt (vice president of product marketing) tackle Trader Joe's topics as if they were outside journalists reporting on the store. The effect is a podcast that sounds like a neutral 3rd party team so jazzed about Trader Joe's that they decided to make a podcast about it. Tara and Matt are transparent about who they are in the introduction, but the show feels produced by someone else. I think if you dipped into a random episode, you would think you were listening to a business podcast analyzing the Trader Joe's business model in a favorable light.

The podcast dives into topics I know you've been wondering about: "How does Trader Joe's come up with so many great holiday products every year?" "Why is everyone at Trader Joe's so nice?" "How does Trader Joe's ensure every one of their 488 stores gets the best produce from all around the world—and how do they reduce their product packaging?" <—This is the content topping Apple Podcasts charts. Amelia Hruby is traveling our 50 Feminist States, Laurah Norton is making the best-researched true crime show I know about, Ethnically Ambiguous is talking about insanely important, under-reported news happening in the Middle Eastern, Punch Up The Jam creates entire songs on each episode. But this! This is what we flock to! Myself included!

[BTW: They say the word "Trader Joe's" approximately 100 times in each 20-minute episode.]

Do you remember the book Salt Sugar Fat? It's about how food scientists determined the exact ratio of salt, sugar, and fat to make food (like potato chips) addictive. I think Inside Trader Joe's has done a similar thing. They have crafted a show that has struck the perfect balance (of promotional, fun, informative, solidly produced, and even a teensy bit safely-negative content) to make a show that feels like an actual show, and not a brand-building experiment. It is a brand-building experiment.

Trader Joe's isn't the only company to make a branded podcast. (One I'm enjoying is Memory.ai's About Time, which explores humankind’s relationship with time, with help from experts. Try The Language of Time and The Physics of Time, which seeks to mop up some of the biggest misconceptions surrounding time with help of quantum physicist Carlo Rovelli.) But I'm not sure anyone has done a more effective job. Please tell me YOUR favorite. I like it when any company has a podcast strategy, and I wish more companies would do it. 99% for my fascination in marketing, and 1% because I actually enjoy them.

xoxo lp
ps If you are pleased with Podcast The Newsletter, please spread the word!
pps you get two interviews today because I wanted to introduce you to my friend Emily who has a cool, timely project I can't not share with you.

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Today, Sean Rameswaram

Sean Rameswaram is the host of Today, Explained, the daily news podcast from Vox. (It celebrated it's 400th episode yesterday!) Follow Sean on Twitter. And mark your calendars for October 15th, when Vox will begin releasing a new 3x-a-week show called Reset, hosted by Arielle Duhaime-Ross.

I have a small panic attack every time I think about how stressful it must be to produce this show every day. I worked for a show that put out one episode every other week and it was insane! How do you do it? How do you deal with the stress?
Being prepared helps a lot. I don’t think of the show in day-to-day terms. Instead, I think of the week. How’s this week going to start? (That’s a Sunday thought.) What comes in the middle? (That’s a Monday thought.) How will it end? (That’s a Wednesday thought.) Let’s have all sorts of different guests. Let’s make people laugh and cry. Let’s tell the most important stories—ones we haven’t told before. (Those are everyday thoughts. Except Saturdays. On Saturdays I try not to think.)

In 400 episodes, what was the one that almost didn't happen?
Allow me to share with you a secret about our very first episode. It’s called “Six Easy Steps to Nuclear War.” We had that episode produced in advance of launching. We made it back in the the drafting days when we were chasing visions, assembling furniture, and trying to figure out what exactly our show was. We all knew it would be great to kick things off with this episode about the seemingly outdated protocol for launching a nuclear weapon in the United States, but why? It’s a daily news show and it didn’t look like the United States’ nuclear weapons were going to be in the news on our launch day.

But then something sort of serendipitous happened. The night before our show was set to debut, there was breaking news about how fragile the country’s nuclear launch protocol was. Seriously! There was breaking news about the exact content of our planned pilot. We shifted the scripting at the top of the episode around and the rest is history.

What's been the most enjoyable thing about making the show, so far?
You’d think the toughest days are those when the news breaks at noon and we have precious few hours to throw a show together (we try to post by four in the afternoon). But those are actually the most exciting and — believe it or not — fun days at Today, Explained. What makes them great, other than the all the free adrenaline going around, is the collaboration. You can’t make something worth a whit in such a short amount of time unless everyone is giving it their all — from the guest to the producers to the interns. Teamwork makes the dream work. Then we hit publish and move on to the next one.

How do you see the show changing in the future?
More episodes about the election.

What are you most excited about when it comes to the future of podcasting?
Podcasting is still in its early stages. If you compare podcasts to film, we might still be in the silent era. What’s color going to look like? What about 3D? I’m excited to see (and hear) where people take our young medium. I can’t wait for the world to discover the next Jad Abumrad. Maybe she’s already making stuff and I just need to find some damn time to listen.

She was my friend first: Emily Winter!

Emily Winter is a writer, stand-up comedian, PODCASTER (Comedians With Ghost Stories), and producer of Backfat, Side Ponytail, and Karen. (Come through, NYC!) Follow her on Twitter.

Tell us about Comedians With Ghost Stories.
I run a live, comedic variety show called BackFat, and every year we throw a special storytelling show of comedians with ghost stories. I love this show and look forward to it all year, so I decided to turn it into a podcast! Each episode features a comedian telling me about their supernatural experiences.

Are ghosts funny? Are ghost stories?
In both ghost stories and jokes, tension is continuously heightened and then released. I think they’re really similar structurally, and I find that fascinating. So yes, I believe ghost stories can be funny!

What's been the most enjoyable thing about making the show, so far?
Hearing the ghost stories!!! My guests have REALLY come through with good ones. Their stories are better than I could have imagined.

If you were going to start another podcast (don't worry about people liking it or any of the logistics) what would it be?
Etiquette. I can’t believe how many functioning adults are inconsiderate, ill-mannered and self-centered! I’d like to teach people (men, mostly) how be more empathetic and kind in small, routine ways.

Can you remember any of the first podcasts you started listening to?
WTF with Marc Maron was my first podcast! I used to do yoga to it and dream of dating him. Now I look back and I’m like, “What?! Gross!” But he seems very nice.

💎BTW:💎

🎙️On Friday, I attended a live recording of Lovett Or Leave It at Radio City Music Hall. It was mind-blowing to see a podcast (a podcast!) crowd fill up Radio City. Stacey Abrams was cool and funny and smart as shit, and talked about what she's doing to fight voter fraud. (And how we can all help.) Desus and Mero were there for an incredible round of OK Stop. And instead of The Rant Wheel, John gave an empowering speech about what we all must do to get Trump out of the White House that made me think he could run for office. Listen to the episode here.

🎙️On Broken, Ariel Levy (The New Yorker) tells the full story of Epstein—and it reads like fiction. It's all the horrifying details I somehow missed in all the Epstein consumption I have done in the past few months. Julie K. Brown, who is known for pursuing the Epstein story more doggedly than anyone, is special correspondent and EP. If you should happen to want Epstein content, this is the best.

🎙️If you've ever wondered what Seth Godin thinks about the podcasting industry, you're in luck because he tells us in his Meta episode. I'm always, in my head, comparing podcasts to books and print media. And Seth says: "Podcasts are a lot like the book store. They are filled with thoughtful conversations among people who care about specific topics." But is there money in it? Seth has an interesting take on the advertising model. Media platforms sell ads based on a) being able to tell their bosses they are advertising on a hot hot space and b) scarcity. Podcasts are hard to measure, and they aren't scarce. Seth says: "Podcasts shouldn't be looking for advertisers, they need sponsors, patient advertisers who understand that the podcaster is talking directly to curious, smart people who have volunteered to spend 30 minutes or an hour in an intimate relationship with someone who is talking with them, not at them. And this is going to take awhile." Listen here.

🎙️Speaking of meta...Occasionally for a thrilling date night, my husband and I will listen to a podcast about a movie, and then watch that movie. (I kind of hate movies, this is the only way I like to engage with them.) Last weekend we listened to the White Men Can't Jump episode of Black Men Can't Jump in Hollywood, (a comedic podcast that reviews films with leading actors of color and analyzes them in the context of race and Hollywood's diversity issues) with guests Jake and Amir from Headgum, and then watched the movie. I recommend watching the movie first and then listening, but pairing the two pieces of content made me think of the movie in new ways. (The idea of reverse racism, why Woody gives Wesley Snipes shit for trying to look fly, and the difference between how the men treat their SOs.) I also recently listened to Black Men Can't Jump In Hollywood episodes of Us (ft, Rachel Pegram, recommend! so many Easter Eggs I missed!) and What Men Want (ft Sydnee Washington, I loved this movie.) Go listen! Also, shoutout to God for pairing me up with a husband who embraces podcasts with an equal amount of nerdy passion that I do. If Justin wasn't down with podcasts, we would probably be divorced by now.

🎙️My dad recommended that I listen to Running From COPS, Dan Taberski's project about COPS's cultural impact on policing in America. I was hesitant to try—I never quite could press play on Taberski's Finding Richard Simmons project. (It made me feel icky.) But I binged Running from COPS on Sunday and it's well-done and does an excellent job exposing how COPS manipulates both its subjects and audience. The last episode returns to a story from one of the first episodes, sort of cracking the case (if there is one.) It's important. Listen here.

🎙️I have talked to both Jacquis Neal and Edgar Momplaisir (his interview is coming up soon) and they both mentioned that their favorite episode of Culture Kings is The Sacred Hill Church, a soap opera written by Edgar and performed by a bunch of great names in podcasting. It's wildly entertaining and a great example of why I love Jacquis and Edgar so much—they are daring in exploring show content ideas, and I think this episode is an example of what they do best. Listen to both parts here.

🎙️In the United States, we are going on hunger strikes to protest the cancellation of the OA, and in Iran, women are setting themselves on fire to protest not being allowed to attend football matches. Other than Anna and Shereen, of Ethnically Ambiguous, not many people are talking about the later. Their episode We Are Outside is a good example of how they're talking about underreported subjects with intelligence, compassion, and even humor. This is such an important show.

🎙️I listened to Jonathan Cheban's podcast Foodgod: OMFG (the things I do for you) and as I mentioned last week, I don't like to speak poorly about podcasts so I will just say, it is! The first episode (called Foodgod's First Podcast—sidenote: does it bother you when people call episodes "podcasts?") hosts Kim Kardashian (ask me the time I interviewed her about books when I worked at Barnes & Noble and she told me her favorite section in the book section was the "life after death section" (?) and loves to read the "Frog Leap" book to her daughter...the Leap Frog reading system, I assume?) Also last week, I mentioned that I was both excited and nervous about Kanye's new album, and my emotions are heightened because on this episode of Foodgod Kim literally calls Kanye Born Again.

🎙️The most recent episode of Bizarre Albums, Chipmunk Punk, was my absolute favorite. The story of The Chipmunks as musicians is expertly told, and (like it or hate it) The Chipmunks's hits are woven throughout. If you're like me this will be a comforting escape to your childhood. But even if not, the episode highlights how ridiculous the idea of producing albums of songs sung by cartoon animals with literally the most annoying voices ever is. How did that hula-hoop song top the charts? Who was buying Chipmunk Punk? How did this happen? Why did The Chipmunks cover so many songs by The Knack? (We learned on an episode of Punch Up The Jam just how gross those boys are.) Why did The Chipmunks NEVER cover Pharoahe Monch's Simon Says? It would have been perfect, it was also my wedding song. Are these simply songs we just love so much we will listen to anyone sing them? (I absolutely and shamelessly love the song Diamond Dolls sung by The Chipettes, but I would prefer to hear Sleater-Kinney singing it, or someone else. Anyone else.)

🎙️Sometimes when I ask people what their favorite show is and they tell me Radio Lab, I'm like "GREAT but that is only the tip of the iceberg!" And I steer them to other shows. But listening to the recent episode Tit for Tat, I was reminded of how excellent the show is. With superb production, it talks about Jesus, the prisoner’s dilemma, and takes you to an incredible story from the trenches of World War I that made me CRY.

🎙️The Gist spent the whole week talking about comedy. On Monday Mike Pesca spoke with Adam Ferrara, Aparna Nancherla, and Hari Kondabolu. Tuesday's episode opened with one of the best conversations I've heard so far about the whole Shane Gillis/SNL problem (and then moved into improv with T.J. Jagodowski, famous for the Sonic commercials.) Wednesday was my FAVORITE episode about comedy podcasts, with an interview with Ron Funches and Jesse Thorn. Jesse is under-credited with all he has done for podcasting. I had no idea he is the one who helped Marc Maron start his podcast. He told the whole story and gave a lot of interesting insight about trends (“Two straight white guys talking about nothing for 90 minutes is not the hot trend"...When he’s starting a podcast or fielding pitches for new shows, he asks: what is so special about this show that it will connect with someone in a deep way and what is so remarkable about it that someone will tell someone else about it) and podcast history. Pesca asks if we should worry that super famous people's podcasts are topping the charts and what that means for the rest of us. "Yes you should worry, but that has always been the case in media." And I love this quote: “If you can make a podcast that’s really valuable to other birders, then what a wonderful way to spend your time and what a wonderful service to your community.” If you are reading this newsletter, that episode is a must-listen. Here it is again. Thursday was about film and I haven't listened to Friday's yet. But go and enjoy on your own.

🎙️Mansplain Yourself attempts to figure out what it means to be a man, and the latest episode is with Miles Gray of The Daily Zeitgeist. Miles's mom is Japanese and his dad is black, and listening to him talk about his childhood is interesting and gives insight into why Miles is so smart and open. The previous episode is with Andy Beckerman, whom I interviewed last week. Listen to both!

🎙️Every episode of The Maris Review is special but the episode with her husband, the hilarious Josh Gondelman, is super special. If I wasn't already married I'd want to marry their relationship (Bizzy included) because it seems so fun and positive and nurturing. As long as they would listen to podcasts with me, also I have to ask them to agree to this first.

🎙️It is telling that Shane Gillis decided not to scrub that awful podcast episode of his. (Was he proud of his "joke?" It didn't seem like a joke to me.) Shane has been fired from SNL already, and I assume his alt-right comedy podcast is already in the works. I bet it will be hilarious.

🎙️Kate and I sent out our first newsletter for The Shelf-Care Podcast. ! We introduce ourselves, talk about what Shelf-Care is, our T-SHIRTS, and a cool giveaway we're doing with Hungryroot. Subscribe here.

🎙️This podcast newsletter is already too long. I am sorry. HANG WITH ME WE ARE ALMOST DONE AND IT'S ALL SO GOOD! I LOVE YOU!

💎If you binge one thing this week...💎

On Mad Chat, host/writer Sandy Allen talks to a guest about a piece of pop culture and how it depicts madness and mental illness. There's probably an episode about something you already love (BoJack Horseman, Frasier, Dawson's Creek, Killing Eve...) but my favorite episode was the one on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Therapists should prescribe it to their patients. These episodes are crucial companion pieces to the media we are already consuming, and each one points out how mental health is depicted, in good ways and bad.

Mad Chat isn't just fun (it is) or well done (it is) but I actually think it's necessary. We are getting all these wacky messages about mental health in media and without guidance, it can totally fuck us up. And it does!!!! I'm glad someone, as Sandy says below, is "calling out the bullshit."

I talked to them about it.

Why did you start Mad Chat? For the last decade, I’ve been investigating what’s truth and what’s myth when it comes to mental health/madness (largely because of writing my book, A Kind of Mirraculas Paradise: A True Story about Schizophrenia). Over time I became really interested in the role that our pop culture plays in shaping what we think about topics like our own minds and psychiatric treatments. I wanted a space to really examine these various shows and movies etc. and what they’re communicating to the public.

What do you hope people get from it? I want my listeners to begin to absorb the culture they’re likely already consuming with greater awareness when it comes to messages about mental health/madness. I want to demonstrate to more people that it’s possible for us to have respectful, nuanced and better-informed conversations about these topics. Topics that in my observation are heavily socially stigmatized and also, generally speaking, are extremely misunderstood. (I do think this situation is the result of Pharma intentionally misleading the public, for decades.) On the show, I want to both praise the sometimes very beneficial role that works of culture can play in our lives (making us feel less alone for example). I also want to call out bullshit.

Sandy if you are listening, can you do an episode on The Joker (2019)? I wonder how the alt-right will view it and I think about incels and other angry/lonely men and what their takeaways will be. (I haven't seen the film.)