💕Do You Bello?🤸♀️ Inside Podcasting's Skye Pillsbury🎙️
💌Podcast The Newsletter is your weekly love letter to podcasts and the people who make them.💌
Bonjour.
The other day I opened my issue of the Bello Collective newsletter and felt a few things. I contribute to it (I recommended Dear Young Rocker, an episode of 99% Invisible, and Crime Writers On…) but I read it just like any other podcast fan, with the hope that I will find a new show to try on. The thing about opening the Bello newsletter is that you get flooded with MANY new shows to try on. Reading it I thought to myself, ‘goddamit, Bellis. You’re way too good.’ And I added a bunch of shows to my queue, bumping everything that was already there down. I cannot stress how valuable these recommendations are. These are shows I would never find on my own, recommended by the people who know what’s good and are exploring the space every day. Subscribe now if you don’t already.
But I also felt something else. Two weeks ago today I wrote about my mom and how much I love her and that it was her birthday. And on her birthday, she had a stroke. I flew to Cleveland to stay with her in the hospital. (It’s why there was no newsletter last week.) It was awful but looking back, there were fun parts about it. I got to have a 4 day slumber party with my mom. I mentioned it in the Bello Slack channel, it’s a group of people I have never met in person, and many of them reached out with love and kindness, asking about my mom and wondering how they could help me. The thing is, they do help me, by being Belli, by keeping my listening queue hefty, and by helping me feel supported in the podcast community.
I have started two podcast companies in the last 6 months and when people ask me if I like it, I say with enthusiasm that I do, and it is because of the people. That is why I love what I do. Everyone I have connected with is interesting, curious, kind, helpful, and loving. I often feel subpar, not good enough to be considered part of the community.
The Bello Collective is a group of fantastic podcast nerds with enormous hearts. (One of them, Skye Pillsbury, is interviewed below.) I talk to them every day and they have become friends. I feel grateful for so much right now, that I’ve discovered podcasts and the community of people around them. And also that my mom is back home now. (I shipped her $100 of macaroni and cheese from Goldbelly yesterday.)
xoxo lp
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Inside Podcasting's Skye Pillsbury
Skye Pillsbury writes the Inside Podcasting newsletter and also hosts the Inside Podcasting podcast. Follow her on Twitter here. Follow Inside Podcasting on Twitter here.
Hi, Skye! Kindly introduce yourself.
My name is Skye Pillsbury and I write the Inside Podcasting newsletter, which includes a mix of news about podcasts, creators, technologies, and industry developments. I also host a podcast of the same name, where creators are given a chance to talk about their craft. It’s kind of like “Inside the Actor’s Studio,” but for podcasts. Season one is available for binge-listening right now; we are working on season two.
Talk about your Heavyweight episode. Was it hard to listen to? (Skye and her son Clark were the subjects of a Heavyweight episode that was nominated for “best audio documentary by The International Documentary Association. Dear reader, this is a must-listen!!!)
No, it was wonderful to listen to! At 5am on the day it dropped I grabbed my phone, ran down to Clark’s room, climbed up into his bunk bed and we listened to it together. It was magical to listen to it in the dark, before the world woke up. I’ll never forget it. Jonathan and Kalila and all the folks at Heavyweight did a wonderful thing for our family. I’m grateful to them.
What are the secrets to running a great interview with a podcaster?
I wish I knew the answer to that question! Sometimes the chemistry just works, and you can’t really put your finger on why. That said, my best advice is to interview people you are supremely curious about, and immerse yourself in their work beforehand. I spend hours reading and listening to the work of my guests. I write my questions down but try not to look at them too much, so that I can really be present in the conversation. I interviewed Kara Swisher yesterday and she told me she never writes her questions down or really does any prep. Then again, she’s a (self-described) sparkly vampire with magical powers. How can I compete with that?
Many women in podcasting are criticized for their voices. What is your relationship to your voice?
When I was younger, I was embarrassed by my voice. It’s of the “husky” variety. But I have no problem with it now — in fact, I like it. Maybe that’s part of getting older and becoming more accepting of yourself.
What was your favorite story that happened in podcasting in 2019?
I hope no one interprets this the wrong way, but I was absolutely fascinated by Luminary’s missteps during its launch. Not because I took pleasure in it, but by doing so many things wrong, Luminary illuminated how to do things right. I learned valuable lessons just from watching that debacle unfold. And despite my relentless coverage of their mistakes, I do want them to succeed. There should be room for everyone and there should be multiple ways to pay creators for ambitious work. I’m not going to throw shade.
What do you say to someone who says they don’t listen to podcasts?
If someone is truly uninterested, I’m not going to waste their (and my) time pushing a boulder uphill. They’ll figure it out when they’re ready. On the flip side, when someone is open to it, I don’t hold back. My son’s orthodontist said she was podcurious, so I took her phone and downloaded some shows and now she’s as addicted as me. Hearing how much she loves listening during her commute gives me a lot of pleasure.
Thanks, Skye!
💎BTW💎
🎙️I tweeted that I get ridiculously excited when I hear that high-pitched 🎼Radio-top-i-a🎼 jingle at the beginning of every Radiotopia episode, because I do. It gives me goosebumps because I am so excited about what I'm about to get to listen to. Kate Chant (thanks, Kate!) responded in a tweet that there is a Song Exploder piece about how the song is made, and it's truly a treat. The 🎼Radio-top-i-a🎼 was sung at different pitches, and then blended together to create something beautiful. It's a short piece—listen even if you have no idea what I'm talking about. It's that good.
🎙️Thanks to Ma’ayan’s recommendation in this week’s Bello Collective newsletter, I discovered The Intersection, a podcast that “tells a multi-layered story about a particular street corner.” I’m in the middle of season one, where we explore San Francisco's Tenderloin district. Listening brings you physically right to the streets, giving you a 360 degree view of the sidewalk, the buildings, the people, and the organizations there. It truly is a portal into another place, I’m addicted. Thank you, Ma’ayan!
🎙️I dug into another show recommended in the Bello newsletter (thanks, Calen!)–an episode of Outside/In, Leo Rising. It looks at astrology as a science, an art, a form of therapy, and the way that some people (LOOKING AT YOU, BILL NYE) see it—a pseudo-science / fortune-telling scam. THIS WAS HARD FOR ME to hear Bill Nye, whom I actually thought I liked (this probably stems from my love for his performance in the now defunct Disney World attraction Ellen’s Universe of Energy) be so bullish and mean and obtuse about astrology, something that is so complex and has been so meaningful to millions of people for zillions of years. And as Outside/In points out, it’s so many different things, it’s whatever you want it to be—a way to navigate your path, a way to relate to the people in your lives, something that provides the queer community with special language, and free therapy to all. I listened to this one day after hearing astrology icon Susan Miller on What’s Your Sign? Susan tells her story and points out that astrology is more of a math than anything. She talks about it in an extremely logical way. I also loved this interview because she sounds so very normal. (She writes her astrology write-ups at a Dunkin’ in Manhattan!) I have always enjoyed astrology for the pure reason that it gets me to approach others (and myself) with empathy–if I’m wondering if they did something because they’re a gemini, I’m at least trying to understand where they’re coming from. I take things that others do less personally. If you’re also interested in astrology, or even just curious about it, listen to these two (very different) episodes. BTW I listened to the Outside/In episode 3 times.
🎙️I was so excited to see that You Must Remember This is releasing a special series Make Me Over, a special 8-episode series that invites 8 writers to contribute stories in the You Must Remember This style, all dedicated to exploring the intersection of 20th century Hollywood and the beauty industry. The first episode, from Megan Koester, is about Molly O'Day and Hollywood's first weight loss surgery. It's a heartbreaking story about a talented actress who was pretty much destroyed by the pressure to be thin and the extreme things she did to keep her job as an actor. Karina Longworth's fingerprints are (fortunately) all over this episode, it feels very You Must Remember This. It's well-done and tackles a part of history I was completely unaware of. I am so excited to listen to the upcoming 7 episodes.
🎙️The new season of The Dream is so different than the first, I originally wasn't sure if I liked it. The first season, about MLMs, was very structured and well-researched. This one, about the wellness industry, is more meandering and playful. After listening once, as the episodes were being released, I listened to it all again, I decided that I do really enjoy it, I just had to adjust my expectations. On episode two of the new season, Jane Marie gets very personal, sharing a story about why she is frustrated about the wellness industry. (She sustained a terrible brain injury as a child.) I enjoy the direction of the new series, and I think you will too, as long as you don't go into it thinking it will be the same as the first. The show dives into the science behind vitamins, crystals, birthing, and more. Jane Marie is so skeptical about wellness, and is so strong in her negative pronouncements about it. Unless you are equally skeptical, you will probably be taken aback by her negativity. If you subscribe to almost anything—CBD, vitamin C, crystals—you will probably disagree with something she is saying. And you will probably find yourself thinking more critically. For me, it made me realize that even if CBD is nonsense, the placebo effect is still real, and that can be reason enough for me to continue to take it. I do take CBD oil every night. And listening to The Dream, I realized that I'm actually not sure if it works at all, or if I just tell myself it does. And really, does it matter?
🎙️The thing that got me thinking intensely about The Dream, and feeling more confident in my assessment, was an episode on Crime Writers On...(a show recommended to me by Skye Pillsbury that reviews true-crime of all kinds.) The CWO team explores why exactly this season of The Dream is so different, and it made me appreciate The Dream more. I really recommend you listen to this if you've been listening to The Dream, but not if you haven't. On the same episode, they also review a something I've been listening to, Disorganized Crime, a show where Rainbow Valentine interviews her parents about their past and their business in the illegal drug trade, when Rainbow was a child. I enjoy Disorganized Crime, but had two critiques that the CWO team point out—it's incredibly white (Rainbow doesn't really address that one reason her dad is able to get away with smuggling pot is that he's a white man) and it's incredibly boomer. (One of the CWO hosts says it's "boomers blowing smoke.") I think if you can look past these things, it's a show full of good stories and a look at an unusual childhood. Rainbow is entertaining. Listen to this episode of Crime Writers On...if you've been listening to Disorganized Crime.
🎙️I also listened to an episode of Crime Writers On...about Don't Fuck With Cats, the Netflix documentary about a team of armchair detectives looking for the person posting videos of animal cruelty. I don't watch a ton of TV but was entranced by Don't Fuck With Cats, for some reason. And although I love animals (I don’t eat them) I wasn't completely bothered by the series' depiction of animal torture. The hosts of Crime Writers On...feel differently. They were completely bothered by how much of the animal cruelty was shown on-screen. I found this hypocritical—eating a cute kitten, in my eyes, isn’t that different than eating a burger. But that's my thing. And this episode of Crime Writers On...is worth a listen if you watched Don't Fuck With Cats.
🎙️Theory of Everything is a frisky little show that is always taking unexpected twists. I never know what to expect. And I am going to ask you to listen to Desert Lies, and tell me at what point of the episode did it occur to you that it’s fiction. Or is it fiction? How much of it is fiction? My brain was rickashaying back and forth, and I’m sure that was Benjamen Walker’s intention. I was unable to come up with a resolution to whether or not I thought how much of it is real (it’s treated like a non-fiction, but it can’t possibly be…right?) but I had so much fun listening I think I just have to settle with the fact that I don’t care. (The set up: Benjamen Walker the podcaster often receives emails meant for Benjamin Walker the actor. A few weeks ago your host received an email inviting Benjamen Walker to Saudi Arabia.)
🎙️Culture Kings is back after a short break (and leaving iHeart Radio, now on Earwolf.) On an episode with Jon Gabrus, Edgar talks about farting at the gym, which gave me a lot of empathy for gym farters in general. I get so pissed when people fart at the gym! I always make sure to make a huge deal about how offended I am, throwing a horrified look on my face, holding a towel to my nose, looking around for the culprit. I mean, that was before. Someone farted at the gym today, and I thought, "well Edgar farts at the gym, and I love Edgar. Maybe the farter is someone like Edgar. Maybe I should not hate this person." And I suffered through the rest of my workout in silence. This is the power of podcasting.
🎙️The Why ‘Mexit’ Matters episode of The Daily was particularly good. The whole Harry/Meghan saga feels juicy and tabloid-y, but Mark Landler (the London bureau chief of The New York Times) explains why it actually matters. “The same forces that pushed for Britain to leave the EU and are now craving its greatest symbols of nationalism in the form of the monarchy, they are the same forces who have inflicted all of this on Harry and Meghan and perhaps driven them to leave the monarchy, to weaken the monarchy. It’s the classic case of getting what you wanted, until you realize it’s not really what you wanted.” A lot like the Brexit debate itself.
🎙️I have been a broken record about sharing my love for Radio Rental, a well-produced podcast that shares creepy, spooky stories from the people who experienced them. On Stuff They Don't Want You To Know, Radio Rental host Payne Lindsey talks about how the show is made, and the incredible lengths he went to in order to find these storytellers.
🎙️Another great podcaster on another great podcast! On Ologies, where Alie Ward interviews ologists of all kinds to make science a blast, Flash Forward host Rose Eveleth talks about her area of expertise, futurology. It's a fun episode so full of info I felt my brain getting more wrinkles as each moment passed. Rose talks about climate change, gender identity, vegetarianism, and how these things fit into our future.
🎙️ One more of my favorite podcasters, Deborah Frances-White (of The Guilty Feminist) was on How I Found My Voice, talking about her pride in being adopted as a child, growing up in a cult, and how comedy saved her. I love everything Deborah has to say, and getting to listen to her on another show, with a format focusing solely on her story, was a treat.
🎙️As I've mentioned before, The Truth was my gateway drug into fiction shows. It's a mix of fun short fiction, every story different, every story funny, smart, and well-produced. On the series The Body Genius, Evan is an idiotic, famous personal trainer to the stars in a fictional Hollywood, and when one of his clients is found dead, it's (unfortunately?) up to him to find out what happened. The story kept me going and is so full of smart jokes, and the characters are unique and perfectly developed. I imagine writer Hunter Nelson must know some dumb beef-heads—otherwise, how could he have so perfectly captured the mind of his protagonist with such sharp wit?
🎙️I had been saving Unwell, a gothic midwestern horror story, for a rainy (snowy, icy) day, and spent last Saturday enjoying the shit out of it. The premise: Lillian Harper moves to the small town of Mt. Absalom, Ohio to care for her estranged mother Dorothy, who is living in the town's boarding house that has been run by her family for generations. The characters are so well-drawn and the production level is so high, I could have listened forever without anything happening. But things get creepier and creepier as each episode unfolds, and toward the end, we learn that some of the characters may be from the other side and that the house is full of conspiracies and mystery.
🎙️Who would have thought that shade could be such a fascinating topic? In true 99% Invisible form, Roman Mars provides fascinating insight into a topic I never thought could even be the subject of an entire podcast at all. Roman interviews shade expert (?) Sam Bloch, who noticed the lack of shady spaces in LA, in a mind-expanding interview that proves that shade can save lives. Without shade, the chance of mortality, illness, and heatstroke can go way up. People become dizzy, disoriented, confused, lethargic, and dehydrated — and for the elderly or people with health issues, that can tip into more dangerous territory, like heart attacks or organ failure. The reason there isn't more shade in LA is more complicated than you think.
🎙️Planet Money's episode on billboards was so much fun to listen to, and even had some awkward moments. Karen Duffin digs into why they are so powerful, and how new technology allows them to be super smart, and a little scary. She talks to Frank O'Brien, CEO of a marketing software company, who can instantly make the billboards in Times Square say anything he wants, all on his cell phone. Frank seems to think all this smart billboard tracking is just the most wonderful thing ever. Karen doesn't necessarily agree. It's interesting to learn how something that you'd think might have disappeared into obscurity by now, could be so effective in marketing—much more effective than print ads and radio ads (when paired with digital ads.)
🎙️I didn’t know what to expect when I turned on Dear Young Rocker, a new show from Double Elvis "for the weirdos, the loners, the ugly ducklings." It feels like a fun YA audio memoir about Chelsea, a girl in awkward adolescence who finds confidence in music. Because this is produced by Jake Brennan, host of Disgraceland, I stupidly thought that Dear Young Rocker would be some sort of Disgraceland Junior, a music podcast for kids. (Again, I'm a moron. Why do you even listen to me?) But I was getting chills listening, and was reminded of my own childhood. It’s all so specific! I would have loved it as a teen, and I love it now. And I kept thinking about how helpful it would have been for me to have it when I was growing up in my own awful adolescence. I think I would have not just felt less alone, but would have had my eyes opened to the kind of person I could be, if I wanted.
🎙️On American Glutton, actor (and ex-plus size model) Ethan Suplee sets out to examine our current obesity crisis. On the first episode, he talks about how he let his weight and health get out of control, and the diets he's been on the reign things in. The show is interesting because Ethan is incredibly honest, and I don't think there are nearly enough men talking about food and diet. It's about time.
🎙️Breaking Money Silence is a cool podcast about money for people who don't like to talk or think about money. (Me.) The host, Kathleen Burns Kingsbury, is a wealth psychology expert, which sounds like a cool part of finance I could get interested in. I listened to "Will more money make life better?" and the message that most women are workaholics and this only adds to stress and anxiety, not happiness, is one I needed to hear. I'll be listening to more.
🎙️I love Long Distance Radio, "a documentary podcast about stories in the Filipino diaspora." In an interesting interview with Dante Basco (you remember him from his role as Rufio on Hook!), Dante talks about Filipino representation in Hollywood, and how his family and culture play a crucial role in his work.
🎙️I haven’t seen as many shows covering the fires in Australia as I thought I would, so I clicked immediately to Dope Lab’s This is NOT a drill, which explains the science how they started, why they aren’t JUST fires, and the fires’ dependent relationship with climate change.
🎙️So you love newsletters and podcasts? Listen to this Earbuds episode compiled by Arielle Nissenblatt, featuring podcast newsletter writers talking about their newsletters. I'm on there, and listening to this episode, you'll discover a few more. The competition for podcast newsletters is FIERCE. Thank you for taking time away from your podcast-listening schedule to read Podcast The Newsletter.
🎙️I was on The Grown-Up Millennial! Listen to me talk to Nicolette Richardson about my podcast business, Tink. Nicolette asks great questions, and it was a really fun interview. (But of course, I am too afraid to listen to it. Somebody tell me if I sound like a complete dolt.)
🎙️My girl Sophia Chang was on Questlove Supreme, and although I've listened to dozens of Sophia's interviews, this was one of the best. Questlove's knowledge of music and music history is unprecedented, and I don't think Sophia often gets to talk to people about music who can enrich everything she's saying with such experience and understanding. Because I get to hear so many people interview Sophia, I was in awe to hear how Amir conducted this interview. (I was in the room while it was happening!) It encouraged me to listen to the backlist. ALL of these interviews are great. Even the Jimmy Fallon one, which I was positive would be bad.
🎙️As you may know, I've been re-obsessed with Awesome Etiquette, the show from the Emily Post Institute. And I want you to become obsessed with it, too. I forgot to mention last time that these questions are so interesting to listen to because the letter-writers often seem like they are in their own soap opera. We get this slice of the story from their perspective, a look into their family dramas. A recent letter titled Let Them Not Eat Cake: “My 21-year-old daughter was at a birthday party for my 21-year-old fiancé's daughter on the 20th of December, and when the birthday cake was passed out my daughter said, ‘no thank you, I don't really want any.’ So my fiancé explained how rude she thought it was of her to decline the cake and it hurt my daughter's feelings. I then had family over to my home on Christmas Eve and my daughter was compelled to make an attempt to tell my fiancé that it was embarrassing and humiliating to have had this happen and she did not appreciate it. My fiancé cut it short and said to her that this was our Christmas and she was not going to discuss it, and got up from the group they were at and walked away, repeating herself in a louder tone so everyone could hear. Of course this stuff never happens when I'm there. I was on the patio and I only got to hear it from their own versions which were very similar. So tonight I asked my fiancé at what point did she intend on opening and addressing the path to resolve the hurt feelings and the answer I got was 'when my daughter reads Lizze Post's column on good behavior.' I need expert advice that is neutral and wise." Lizzie and Dan point out that there is some "interesting things going on, some escalating behavior." I love hearing this dumb, juicy story, and Lizzie and Dan's advice surprised me. (They scold the daughter for not just accepting the cake with more politeness.) Do you see why I cannot stop listening to this show? It's the same reason I love the Real Housewives!
🎙️Molé Mama interviewed one of my clients, Nafy Flatley! (Featured in the La Cocina cookbook.) Nafy talks about becoming the owner of Teranga, a baobab juice and ice pop business, and how being in business for herself is now Nafy’s American dream. I 💖Diana and this is a delicious, fun conversation.
🎙️Ezra Klein is such a great interviewer in podcasting because he doesn't always follow the typical interview rules that other shows seem tied to. (Oh! And I love his show notes! They are the best show notes in podcasting. It's clear he always puts thought into them, and even when I think an episode won't interest me, the show convinces me otherwise.) Ezra interviewed Cory Booker without a hint of ass-kissing and a healthy amount of skepticism, allowing us to really get to know Cory. It doesn't feel like a traditional interview with a politician.
🎙️I love you!