👩🏻🎤 #FreeBritney, tree-hugging, Holden Caulfield, next-door villains 😈 Zach Mack 🗺
💌Podcast The Newsletter is your weekly love letter to podcasts and the people who make them.💌
Bonjour!
This week we’re getting to peek into the podcast app and listening life of Jelani Carter, associate producer for the Vox Media Podcast Network. He got his start doing freelance for a few fashion podcasts before coming to Vox in early 2018 and has had a hand in almost every show on the network. He currently produces Good One: A Podcast About Jokes for Vulture, and Recode Media w/ Peter Kafka.
App I use: I used to be an Apple Podcasts guy, but I started transitioning over to Spotify since that’s my primary spot to listen to music, and I like synergy haha. Plus I’m a fan of dark user interfaces!
Listening time per week: I like listening to hour to 2 hour long podcasts, about 4 times a week. I’m not super good at math, so somebody should break that down, but that’s typically my listening habits when I’m not working on a show for work.
When I listen: B.C. (Before corona lol) I used to listen to podcasts on my commute into and from work, and during my lunch breaks. I had about a 40 minute ride from my place to the office, so that was enough time to knock out an episode. Now I try to fit in a few eps a week since I’m more of a YouTube fan when I’m home. Funny enough though, I’m watching the video versions of my favorite podcasts!
How I discover: I’m a huge YouTube and Twitter fan, and I usually get put on to different shows just being a fan of various writers and personalities. In addition to that, a lot of my colleagues are amazing journalists with fantastic taste, so I get show recommendations from them as well.
Anything else you want to say, Jelani? I’ll end this with a quote that my dad used to say to me all the time when I was growing up: “Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn’t work hard.” Oh, and watch Teenage Bounty Hunters on Netflix lol. It’s a fantastic show that deserved more!
xoxo lp
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👋q & a & q & a & q & a👋
Zach Mack
Zach Mack is a longtime podcast producer for places like the Ringer and Vox Media and is now host and producer of Greetings from Somewhere. Follow him on Twitter here.
How is Greetings from Somewhere different from other travel shows? Do you call it a travel show?
When I started making this show I couldn’t name a single other travel show that felt immersive or like you actually got to experience being in a place. I wanted to make a show that felt like it took place outside in the world, where listeners would feel like they were on the road with me.
TELL ME ALL ABOUT THE DISNEY WORLD EPISODE. It's how I was introduced to your show (thanks to Skye Pillsbury!) and I'm obsessed with it. Was it weird to record there?
I had never been to Disney World and it was not on my original list of places to go this season. After the Pandemic hit I started to think about places I could responsibly go to. Disney World was open and is all outdoors. I grew up with Disney movies like everyone else but never understood the extreme Disney fandom, especially around the theme parks so that felt it’d be a fun subculture to explore. It was.
How did you make a travel show during a pandemic?
It’s tricky. But in many ways, I think the Pandemic has added this layer of tension to the show that works really well. It feels more current. It’s a universal experience we’re all having. It sucks. It’s changed the way we do nearly everything but it’s a creative constraint that has helped me make a more focused and empathetic show.
Have you always been a good traveler?
No way. Not even sure I’m a “good traveler” now. I don’t travel a ton or define myself by how many places I go. I’ve traveled less than a lot of my friends which I think makes me more excited when I do get out there. Anyone can do this, I’m so far from a travel expert or even a travel enthusiast but I love meeting new people and seeing new places.
Why are you the perfect host for this show?
Because I am making the show I wanted to make. Every part of this show is me pursuing my own interests. If you’re reading this and want to make a show, my advice is to make YOUR show! What is YOUR show?
What have you learned about the country making the show?
When you look at this country, what’s happening with the pandemic, politics, racial justice, the lens we view history through, it’s clear we’ve got some work to do. Empathy feels like a good place to start.
What have you learned about yourself making the show?
That I can actually make this show. When I started I really wasn’t sure I could. I was terrified.
If you were going to create another podcast, don’t worry about the logistics or whether or not anyone would like it, what would it be?
A serialized quest to get that elusive Wu-Tang album from Martin Shkreli.
What is your relationship with your voice and how would you describe it?
I've always been pretty self-conscious of my voice. Growing up in California people would always ask me where I was from or suggest that I sounded southern, despite growing up in the exact same area as the people asking the question. That always made me aware that I sounded different and no one wants to be different when you're that age. You just wanna fit in. I've made more peace with it since and have heard a lot of compliments on it while making this show, thank god!
Is there anything I didn’t ask you that you’d like to talk about?
I've been thinking a lot about independent creators and things like how difficult it is to get a show made, IP ownership, and wondering what happens to the indie creator in this medium. Where do they go? What should they do? How can one be successful without a larger network? It all feels increasingly difficult and I just want us as an industry to look out for creators more. Still processing how we do that.
🚨If u only have time for 1 thing🚨
When I saw that Spectacle had dropped its first two episodes I think I clasped my hands together and looked to the sky and said, God, I truly do not deserve all that you provide me. I love Neon Hum and editor Catherine Saint-Louis’ work, and the subject is not only get-out-the-popcorn enticing, but it’s also tackling a subject that hasn’t already received this exhaustive, investigative podcast treatment. Host Mariah Smith is tracing the history of reality TV to illustrate how it’s changed culture, and how culture has changed it. The first episode talks about where it all began, the show An American Family. Hearing the origins of reality TV is like going into a museum and looking at ancient teapots that only sort of look like teapots. Episode two looks at what the first episode of The Real World solidified in our culture and the future of TV.
💎BTW💎
🎙️Why Are Dads? looked at the film 10 Things I Hate About You with Sanpriti Ireland for a conversation that reminded me of this movie’ sweetness, memorable one-liners and funny details. (Like the fact that one of the cliques at the school is the cowboy clique.) Sarah, Alex, and Sanpriti point out that 10 Things is a rare celebration of teenagers and all their glorious weirdness, and that Cat is unlike other teen heroes in movies. They obviously touch on the dad, played by Larry Miller, and discuss how he also stands out from other dads in TV and film. I’m not going to reveal who the real “daddy” is of 10 Things I Hate About You. You’ll have to listen to find out.
🎙️I got completely lost in episodes of Fuck Bois of Literature over the weekend, which exposes the worst, best stuff about the tropes and literary legends we love. Almost everything ever written in this history of literature, including things that were written yesterday. This podcast acknowledges that but also holds fuck bois’ feet to the fire and makes sure they don’t get off scotch free. These episodes are VERY funny (some great guests) and the subjects are all people who deserve a second look. (You will love this if you like You’re Wrong About.) A second read of Rebecca reveals a) how triggering and truly horrifying this story is for women in particular b) interesting observations about why Rebecca pissed off Mrs. Danvers so much and c) that everyone in this story is a fuck boi. The episode on David Foster Wallace made me feel icky—as host Emily Edwards and guest Andrew Rostan point out, DFW was not shy about his pretentiousness. He looked down on writers like Shirley Jackson and Ursula Le Guin (a coincidence that these were both women?) because they wrote accessible stories, which made DFW deem them as low-brow. It made me feel sad about how a book I actually enjoyed, Consider The Lobster, and an essay I loved, “A Supposedly Fun Thing I’ll Never Do Again,” that pokes fun of people who enjoy cruise ships. (Something I love!) David Foster Wallace, you are a fuck boi. You would not have liked me, and I do not like you back. We need to move on, this issue of podcast the newsletter can’t be The Fuck Boi issue (or can it be?,) but my favorite episode was the one on Holden Caulfield, who is NOT a fuck boi. In fact, perhaps people who think he IS a fuck boi are the actual fuck bois. It’s popular for people to roll their eyes at The Catcher in the Rye, but Emily points out that in this book, JD Salinger has written the perfect teenager (celebrating them, much like 10 Things I Hate About You) who loves his little sister to death and doesn’t seem to jive with the rape culture that surrounds him and enjoys talking to nuns. What I learned about fuck bois this weekend: anyone can be one, and some people with bad fuck boi reputations are really getting the short end of the stick.
🎙️I love what Eric Johnson is doing with Follow Friday—it’s an enjoyable show, but it also truly offers a service for us all. In each episode, he talks to his favorite people on the internet about their favorite people on the internet so that we can follow the best of the best the internet has to offer. This week Eric talked to Jenn Takahashi of Best of Nextdoor, which is a hilarious account to follow. (“Quality neighborhood drama.”) Jenn follows Ice-T, Danny Groner, some guy named Matt, and Kale Salad. I always roll my eyes when I hear people say that Twitter is toxic. That says something about them! I curate my Twitter following so that I am only exposed to people who make me think and laugh. Follow Friday is making my Twitter feed better.
🎙️This Ask Sam edition of Outside/In, with Short Wave’s Maddie Sofia and How to Save a Planet’s Kendra Pierre-Louis, seemed innocuous enough but it ended up giving me chills and made me worry about my life choices. A caller asks: do trees notice when we hug them? The answer is yes, that plants can detect energy and emotion and light. Being reminded of the delicate balance of nature freaked me out, because if trees can notice a hug, then surely the environment is responding to all the less-nuanced, very fucked up stuff I’m doing to it. The garbage, the reliance on fossil fuels, not to mention the fact that for the most part, I’ve completely abandoned nature. I am living in New York City during a pandemic and I can’t even remember the last time I saw a tree. I have noticed that I’ve been getting antsy because I haven’t traveled anywhere outside my concrete neighborhood in almost a year, and this snippet confirmed my fear that my lack of connection to nature is probably wearing on my soul.
🎙️Those who love Maria Hinojosa and her work are in for a treat. Maria is a voice on the new podcast Suave, hosted by Maggie Freleng, which tells the story of juveniles incarceration by taking a look at one man, David Luis “Suave” Gonzalez, who was sentenced to live in prison when he was a teenager for murder, and his relationship with a journalist, Maria. In the first two episodes, we learn a lot about how this happened, but also Maria’s longterm relationship with Suave. She told him he could be a voice for the voiceless, which is something that Suave, who went into prison being unable to read and left with his GED, has done. I think by signing up for this podcast, you are signing up for frustration and heartbreak, but I also had a huge smile on my face getting to hear Maria work, the way she zooms into a story and the people in it, and to see Suave’s story evolve with her.
🎙️The Constant just perfectly executed a three part series on crime-solving that I recommend you listen to all in one sitting, if you can. It starts with an episode on crime-solving pre-forensics, then moves onto how forensics became accepted into court cases, and then, in a way that reminds me of the finale to The Foolkiller, Mark, much like a lawyer himself, brings it all home with a final argument that despite all the scientific advances we’ve made since we were drowning witches, we haven’t gotten any better at figuring out who is guilty of what. Episode three ends with a bang that will leave you breathless.
🎙️Your favorite ex-teenage conspiracy theorist Chelsey Weber-Smith talked to another ex-teenage conspiracy theorist, Ellen Cushing, who recently wrote a piece in The Atlantic about being a young Illuminati-truther during the post-9/11 years. It’s always compelling to hear the story of someone who has changed their core belief system, but hearing two people bounce back and forth amplifies the effect. Listen to a clip here. Today’s American Hysteria tackles children’s programming, and illustrates the power of education and how we’ve used it to disenfranchise poor people and people of color.
🎙️If you watched The New York Times’ documentary Framing Britney, you must listen to Tess Barker, who was featured in the doc, talk about how she started the #FreeBritney movement kind of by accident on Web Crawlers. She and her Lady To Lady co-host Babs Gray (Lady to Lady was just picked up by Exactly Right, and you can hear the ladies read a letter I wrote them here, and an episode completely dedicated to a care package I sent them in 2017 here) were the first people to notice that something was amiss, and that clues to Britney’s strange situation might be illustrated publicly on Britney’s Instagram account. They started a podcast, Britney’s Gram, and eventually a whistleblower from Britney’s legal team called the show to reveal unsettling information about the fucked up nature of the conservatory, an incident that sparked the #FreeBritney movement. On Web Crawlers, Tess explains how Britney’s Gram started as a joke (I can remember listening to the first episode and thinking it was so weird and funny) but as she and Babs started spending 30-minutes talking about a single Instagram post from Britney, they started to notice potential, serious cries for help. Tess and Babs are now Britney experts, deserve to be credited with starting the movement, and can explain the whole conservator situation better than anyone else. BTW Web Crawlers also had an episode on Elisa Lam & The Cecil Hotel that was so much more fun and encompassing than I had expected.
🎙️teikirisi closed up their first season with an episode about Cuban tourism, and the problem with people who say they want to visit Cuba “before it changes.” How many times have you heard someone say this? Conan went to Cuba and had a lol time. When people romanticize Cuba, they are ignoring all of the hardships of the people there, and the fact that their presence puts extra pressure on the people there. It’s not there, as Carmen and Fryda say, to be your “vintage playground.” Carmen and Fryda were born in Cuba and have relatives there, yet they are afraid to go back. (They have good reason to be.) They talk to other Cubans about what they think when they hear white people romanticizing a place that may feel stuck in time, but one that really needs to evolve so that its citizens can thrive there. And they give advice for people who want to go to Cuba, but want to do it ethically. This is a conversation I am so glad I got to hear. Consider this your “listen to this before you say something stupid to a Cuban person” episode. Listen to a clip here.
🎙️You should listen to the entire series I Am Not A Monster, but if you haven’t started and are curious, listen to the most recent episode, I guarantee you’ll be hooked. On it, Josh Baker talks to Matthew, the son of Samantha Elhassani, who was just sentenced to six years in jail for supporting ISIS in Syria. Matthew was taken to Syria with his mom, where he was forced to make an ISIS propaganda and lived in terror under the rule of his step-father, who was killed in a drone attack. MATTHEW IS HOME and gives a heart-breaking interview with Josh about what it was like to make the video and live every day thinking he may be killed, and how he made it back to Indiana. This is one of those podcasts that you’ll listen to alone getting coffee at 7-11, looking around at everyone else thinking, “are you all hearing this?” and wanting to tell them about it. Know what I mean? It’s so well done, so beautifully put together, so dark and dangerous, and something that seems surprising that we get to hear.
🎙️On Next Door Villain, Joe and Tiana are finding empathy for our most twisted fictional villains, by putting themselves in the shoes of people like The Wicked Witch of the West, Gus from Breaking Bad, Norman Bates, and Angelica Pickles. I listened to the episode about Gaston, my FAVORITE douchebag, and I cannot believe how quickly I was able to feel sorry for him. A girl getting kidnapped by a monster in the woods seems like a real threat to a town and a good reason to at least try to get her back. If this happened in America, we would be pulling out guns so fast there wouldn’t be time for any sort of plot to the story. If you squint your eyes, Gaston is the hero.
🎙️FANTI had an episode about Clubhouse on Clubhouse that made me realize I’m not using Clubhouse right? I use it, so far, for one thing and one thing only: to attend Juleyka Lantigua-Williams’ Podcasting Seriously weekly meetings, which I love. But I think I need help finding other cool rooms. (So far I have searched two subjects: podcasts and otters.) (BTW Jon Christensen wrote a really comprehensive piece about Clubhouse and what it means for podcasters.)
🎙️Citations Needed takes an episode to point out that the media does a lot of reporting when there are “riots,” (or more accurately “responses to acute distress,”) but not as much reporting on the dire Covid situation behind bars. Adam talks to Patrice Daniels, an activist currently incarcerated in Illinois state prison in Joliet, IL, two days after a riot took place, about the real thing the media should be talking about—the terrible situation inmates are facing, the fact that inmates need to be vaccinated sooner rather than later, and why we can’t look down on people in jail. Listen to a clip here.
🎙️It feels unusual to have this kind of explosive series, The Test Kitchen, about the Bon Appétit debacle, on Reply All, but I like it. Sruthi Pinnamaneni is talking to people of color who worked under racist conditions there, and it’s pretty sickening. Chapter two outlines the toxic environment that Adam Rapoport, the magazine’s ex editor-in-chief, allowed. Story after story, we hear how people of color were pushed to the side, their ideas blatantly ignored. But on this episode, we get to hear how they decided to work together to change how ideas could be turned into articles, and how they attempted to make the editorial meetings more inclusive.
🎙️I went from listening to the ongoing racism happening at Bon Appétit on Reply All’s Test Kitchen, to this piece on Gastropod that fills in the history of cooking shows that goes back to pre-Bon Appétit days. It’s a reminder that the pioneer of cooking on TV was a woman, Julia Childs, and that she was followed closely by an Asian woman, Joyce Chen. How did we get from Joyce Chen teaching people how to cook Szechuan dishes, to dudes like Guy Fieri turning cooking TV into “manly” entertainment? It speaks to the larger story of how cooking went from something that was once considered women’s work, and went on to be seen as something that men were more equipped to do.
🎙️On Extra Spicy, Soleil Ho and Justin Phillips talked to Dr. Emily Contois, author of Diners, Dues, and Dietsabout why certain food is marketed to and acceptable for men, and some of it is not. Food is about so much more than food, and in this case, it’s about gender, power, and struggle. Dr. Contois explains another subgenre of this, how protein has been particularly masculinized and pushed upon us so much that makes Contois ask…where does the idea that everyday people are supposed to eat like athletes (have recovery meals, pre-workout foods) come from?
🎙️Brené Brown was the first guest on The Laverne Cox Show, and was gutsy and unapologetic as ever talking about white women and losing support when she “got political” and refused to support Trump. Somewhere in there, she reveals the word she hasn’t said since the year 1994 (it’s “bitch”) and why.
🎙️Under the Influence’s Women’s Work was so much better than I had anticipated. On the show, Jo Piazza is exploring the history of and relationship between women and the internet. Women’s Work tells the story of how women built blogging but a) aren’t properly credited for it and b) were way better at it than their male counterparts. During the blogging boom I (had several blogs of my own, including an anonymous one that semi-blew up called Your Status Is Annoying, that I wrote with my friend Eric, and have never until this very moment revealed that we were the ones behind it and) b) worked at Parenting magazine, which means that for the website, I worked with a lot of mommy bloggers. God I always hated calling them that. They were the most innovative creators who were able to emotionally connect with the world in this new exciting way we were all trying to connect. And, as this episode explains, the internet went on to destroy them. So far, the two episodes I’ve listened to of Under the Influence have had great narratives and could easily stand alone, but it’s clear each episode is part of a huge arc, and that we’re going somewhere so that we can see the larger picture of moms on the internet and how different the internet would have been had not moms gotten out their keyboards and started opening themselves up to the internet.
🎙️Through the Cracks tells the story of 8-year-old Relisha Rudd, who, in 2014, disappeared from a homeless shelter in Washington, D.C. where she had been living with her family. 18 days passed without anyone realizing she was missing. And host Jonquilyn Hill is trying to figure out how Relisha fell through the cracks and if her disappearance was preventable. It’s well-produced and the interviews with Relisha’s family feel super intimate.
🎙️Kerning Cultures has a whirlwind of a story that I didn’t know about—Operation Nemesis, a 1920 assassination plot on former Ottoman political and military figures led by Armenian business men who decided to take justice into their own hands after the Armenian Genocide. This was before the Holocaust, but forced the world to come to terms with the idea of genocide, and come up with a name for it, which is another interesting mini story within this story. Listen to a Hark clip from this episode here.
🎙️I love you!