🏰 Disneyfication, Candid Camera, K-pop, drive-by-hugging 🤗 Ian Chillag 👖
💌Podcast The Newsletter is your weekly love letter to podcasts and the people who make them.💌
Bonjour!
This week we’re getting to peek into the podcast app and listening life of Eric Johnson, the founder of the podcast consultancy BumbleCast and the host of a new podcast about ‘the best people on the internet’ called Follow Friday. He writes a newsletter called Watch This! and recently launched a podcast discovery website, Listen to This Podcast. Eric previously produced Recode Decode with Kara Swisher from 2015 to 2020.
App you use: I listen to most of my podcasts in Castro, but I also use Overcast to collect certain episodes in playlists (e.g. the current Podcast Brunch Club list, or new podcasts to check out.)
Listening time per week: Normally around 10 hours per week, not including my own work or my consulting clients’.
When you listen: Doing chores, running errands, or relaxing at home. I used to listen in the car on my commute to work, but I no longer have a car or a commute, which I prefer, on balance! I occasionally listen while I work if I’m doing something menial, like data entry or organizing my email inbox.
How you discover: Email newsletters, Twitter, and other podcasts, in that order. The problem is, I always have a backlog of new shows I want to listen to; so now, I have a reminder on my calendar every day at 4:00 p.m.: “Listen to something new.”
xoxo lp
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Ian Chillag
Ian Chillag created Everything is Alive, an interview show in which all the guests are inanimate objects. Follow him on Twitter here.
How did you get introduced to the audio space? Have you always loved it, before podcasting?
I remember being a kid and my dad picking me up from school and then when we got home, he made us sit in the car in the garage and listen to the end of whatever was on NPR, and I think I had just learned about carbon monoxide poisoning, so I was afraid public radio was going to kill us. So that’s how I got introduced to the audio space.
I’ve had a bunch of jobs in public radio. I worked on Fresh Air, and Wait Wait, and with Mike Danforth, I co-created a show for NPR called How To Do Everything. We stopped doing it when I left NPR and I really miss making it. I think my favorite thing I’ve ever worked on is a mattress ad Mike and I did.
How do you prepare people to be on the show? Any tips?
We tell people: no funny voices. The more our objects sound like humans, the better.
And we tell them: make sure you're thinking about a specific object. Meaning, if you're a pencil, don't think of it as representing every pencil in the world. Think of it as a single pencil, with unique experiences and relationships. That makes it easier to create characters that feel real.
And we tell them that the only thing different about the world of Everything is Alive is that things can talk and think. So, like, an ashtray can complain about getting ashed into, but it can't choose to move out of the way. Generally, I think you only get one leap from reality--if you do more than that, everything falls apart. It’s a little like when you’re watching something and somebody comes back from the dead. Then you’re like, well if people can come back from the dead, why should I worry about anybody?
Also we tell our guests to wear light clothing because our studio gets really hot. Or we did, before covid. I really miss being gross and uncomfortable in a studio with someone!
Any interesting listener feedback you'd like to share with us?
Lately I’ve heard from a lot of teachers who have been using the show during remote learning. They’re assigning episodes and then asking students to make their own--either writing them up or actually making the audio. And a couple people wrote in and told me they did Zoom birthday parties with an Everything is Alive theme where everybody had to come as an inanimate object. That stuff has been really nice to hear.
I do think about the people who got invited to those birthday parties and had no idea what the show was but just went with it, and those are some very good friends.
Were there any episodes that you didn't think would work out but they did?
Not really, but there are a lot of things I thought would work out that didn’t. We kill a lot of episodes. I was just saying to someone that I used to have this idea that I wanted to work with all my friends, but now I try not to work with friends because I feel so terrible cutting things that don’t work. It’s already so hard to make the right decision with editing, and you want to know for sure that the reason you’re keeping something is because it’s good, and not because you’re thinking about someone’s feelings.
(There are exceptions! If you’re reading this, and you’ve been on the show, and we’re friends, I’m not saying we’re not friends!).
Do you think there are any rules all podcasters should adhere to?
Generally no, and I get so excited when I hear something that sounds different. Even if I don’t like it, I’m always thrilled by hearing a thing that just sounds new. I love it when a podcast sounds like it’s made by someone who has never heard a podcast.
But yes, there is one rule everyone should follow: don’t eat on mic. If you’re doing a food segment, that doesn’t mean anyone wants to hear you chew. Don’t say “mmmmm.” Everyone already knows what eating sounds like and no one needs to hear it. I feel… strongly about this.
🚨If u only have time for 1 thing🚨
When I was a little girl, I told my mom that when I thought too much about an upcoming Disney World trip, I felt like I had a fever. “I have the fever,” I’d say. And who am I kidding, I still say it. American Hysteria had the episode of my dreams, on Disneyfication, and the explanation for this very real, biological feeling, and how Disney brings us to a fantasy world through all of our senses. Listen to a clip here. Today Chelsey released a follow-up episode with Sarah Marshall (You’re Wrong About) covering animatronics, The Enchanted Tiki Room, and the wild story of Disneyland’s opening day, also known as Black Sunday. (How did I not know about this?) I can’t mention The Enchanted Tiki Room without pointing you towards one of my favorite audio pieces of all time, Those Happy Place’s Birds of Paradise series, which is a historical look at the attraction but also probes what it can tell us about its era, aesthetics, and intended meaning.
💎BTW💎
🎙️On Imaginary Advice, Ross Sutherland showcased John Osborne’s autobiographical piece My Car Plays Tapes, which he wrote for The Edinburgh Festival Fringe, but never got to perform because of Covid. It’s a gentle, reflective story about nostalgia and getting older, filled with so many tiny details that it feels alive and three-dimensional. Please let me know how you feel after you listen to it. When it was done, I found myself standing there like a goon, a huge smile on my face, and I’d love to know if anyone has that same reaction.
🎙️The Best Advice Show is another podcast that’s part of my daily routine, but I don’t write about it enough. Every episode offers a piece of advice from a guest and is about three minutes long. I swear to god if you take a few minutes to listen when you wake up, you’ll have a better day. Not just because of the advice, but to be jolted with the idea that we can all try to be a little better. Drive-By Hugging was the best episode yet. I am biased, the guest is my dad, but his advice is so sweet it made me goddam cry. You may not cry, he’s not your dad. But I think it will make your day better.
🎙️If that’s not enough Passell for you, my mom (famous for her appearance on Judge John Hodgman and her Barbie Instagram account) was on The Best Advice Show today, talking about amusing yourself instead of trying to please others, a message she is dedicating especially to older women. I think if you listen to her story you will have a better understanding of how I got here, writing Podcast the Newsletter. And warning: I think I am appearing on The Best Advice Show tomorrow because my family is trying to take over the entire show.
🎙️I’m not interested in sports because of the numbers or the “touchdowns” or the “home runs” but for the people and the stories behind them. The gossip. Burn It All Down is like your sharp-as-hell, women-hosted, roundtable gossip sports show that calls out the injustices happening in the sports world. And it’s like whack-a-mole, things I never would have considered on my own. The hosts are writers, professors, and activists who offer sharp takes and also enough about themselves that you feel like they are friends. I could write about any episode, but this week they talked about sports corruption, which fulfills my longing for gossip. But it’s also important. For example: Amira gets into sports corruption in Esports and how Esports have been impacted by the pandemic. This show stretches my brain and it makes me mad and it makes me happy that these women are covering it.
🎙️I wonder if anyone else has had a similar journey of going from casual Switched on Pop listener to an obsessed one, like I did. I heard one good episode years ago, started paying attention to it, then after I liked enough episodes I realized I should probably subscribe, then I’d listen to episodes only when I thought they’d interest me, and now I am to the point where I listen to every single episode, often multiple times, because I always learn something new, and even if it covers a genre or person who I’m not into, I find new appreciation for whatever Nate and Charlie are talking about. I was thinking about that when Epik High is our gateway into Korean hip hop popped up in my feed. I think there may be two types of people, a) people who are like “I love K-pop and know everything about it,” or b) people who are like “I don’t know anything about K-pop but I probably should because they seem to be controlling a big part of our world and their birthdays are always trending on Twitter.'‘ If you’re b, like me, this episode is chef’s kiss, made just for you. It’s a perfectly package piece that explains how K-pop cropped up, the challenges Korean hip-hop faces and how the creators work around those obstacles, and you even get into the mind of a K-pop star, Tablo of Epic High. It’s what you should know about K-pop and why, even if it’s not your jam, you should at least find it fascinating.
🎙️I love, love, love the idea of Follow Friday. Eric Johnson (interviewed at the top) talks to people about their internet lives and who they follow on social media. I’m always curious about what people are listening to and reading and experiencing. It’s why we all love looking inside people’s houses at night when their lights are on! Eric just launched the show, and the first episode, with Avery Trufleman, was a blast. Eric is the perfect host, and you come away a) learning more about Avery and b) with some great suggestions on who to follow to make your internet experience much cooler. I would like to suggest Eric interviews Jack O’Brien of The Daily Zeitgeist!
🎙️Vietnamese Boat People is full of stories about people who, between 1975 to 1992, escaped Vietnam in boats in search of freedom. Each episode has so many moments that leave me breathless. People saving the lives of strangers, risking everything, enduring abuse, and leaving everything they know. On The Perfect Storm, we meet Quang, who was born in Ha Noi in 1953 and drafted into war in 1970, where he was eventually captured by the North. His cinematic escape story includes saving the life of a young, random boy and is packed with so many twists and turns that it highlights Quang’s strength and endurance to overcome every single obstacle, something I’m not sure I could do. Part of me thinks that I would have just given up, but taking all of these stories in, you realize that humans are capable of incredible things, beyond-human things, for their freedom.
🎙️Siblings Noah and Hana Maruyama are collecting stories of the people who lived through the Japanese American concentration camps for their podcast Campu. It’s personal—their great-grandfather was a prisoner at an internment camp called Heart Mountain, where he collected rocks, partially to stay sane, and partially because rock gardens were a big part of Japanese culture. It’s explained in the first episode, and is why the name of the show is Campu, a word that comes from campu no kuse, or the Japanese word for collecting things, which was common in the camps. Each episode begins with an object that launches you into an unforgettable story, giving you intimate insight into what the camps were like, and how the prisoners were affected for years after they were released. What these people were really like, the real dangers they faced, what they dreamed about and worried about, and how they survived. The stories draw out their humanity. While Rocks is incredibly personal, Paper tells stories through looking at what prisoners wrote down in their loyalty questionnaires, the forms that assessed the loyalty of Nikkei (Japanese emigrants and their descendants) in the concentration camps. There is power in each of these objects, and focusing on them is a unique way to tell the story of the camps.
🎙️I’ve said this a million times, but if you are new to the newsletter, a) hi! and b) The Truth is the podcast for people who don’t think they like fiction shows, but will. It’s always strange and funny, and you can always expect a twist at the end. What The Truth does is amazing—it drops you into a fictional world but you immediately feel part of the story. And the brilliant way it uses sound to give you hints about the stories feels both effortless but also makes you realize what a challenge it is to do. (The voice acting is also the best I’ve heard.) Love in Hollywood stars Cat and Dave, a couple who find themselves part of a highly-manipulated reality TV show. But like always with this show, things aren’t exactly as they seem.
🎙️Sad news: Culture Kings has ended. This was an innovative chat show between friends Edgar Momplaisir and Jacquis Neal. I have been listening since the very beginning, and with each episode, I found myself further entrenched in the Culture Kings world. Edgar and Jacquis are funny, smart, open, and have a way of making you feel like you’re in their tight circle. Defining Culture Kings was always tough. They’d talk about basketball or have a guest on to talk about relationships or do improv or table reads. (I always loved their Sacred Hill Church episode.) Justin and I would listen to this show together and we’ll miss having Edgar and Jacquis as constant companions in our weeks.
🎙️You know I love Pessimists Archive, the show that takes a look at things we used to fear or be skeptical of but no longer do. Host Jason Feifer is a great storyteller and continuously brings us fascinating histories of things we look at differently than we used to, like forks, mirrors, and birthday parties. I’ve talked to Jason about this a bit…the name “Pessimist Archive” makes it sound like pessimistic show for complainers, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. When you think about things we’ve learned to embrace, you realize that the future can be a sunny place for some of the things we are wary of now if we can learn how to adapt to change. So Jason made a big move and changed the name of the show to Build for Tomorrow, which makes me think of Disney World. (That’s what I say about shows that give me that Disney feeling of being happy and curious and magical and alive.) The first episode in the show’s new life is a hunt for the “good old days.” Jason goes back through time, trying to pin point the exact date that is, according to nostalgics, the good old days. It says a lot about nostalgia and whether that is good or bad for how we look at the past, present, and future.
🎙️The Heart shared an episode of We Are Not The Virus, which looks at the housing crisis in Toronto by dipping into the lives of the unhoused. And I think you’ll like it, especially if you enjoyed 99% Invisible’s Miniseries According to Need. Each episode tours a Toronto encampment to get personal with the people living in the natural elements (so far we’ve got Water and Wind) to hear firsthand what’s going through their minds and the things they do in order to survive. (Kind of like how Campu uses objects to launch into story, We Are Not The Virus is using these elements.) It feels like you’re tagging along with the host, really getting to know the people in the camps. It forces you to think, with each story, “could that happen to me?” and “what would I do?”
🎙️Radiolab tells the incredible story of the TV show Candid Camera (Smile, My Ass,) how it started as a radio program, changed its tone to make people feel like they were lucky to be captured for the show, and led an entire airplane full of seriously hijacked passengers to believe they were being punked. Listen to a clip here. (And if you want to hear more about the plane hijacking epidemic of this time, listen to American Skyjacker.) That story about Candid Camera’s Allen Funt, at the end, is so crazy it sounds fake, it’s super entertaining. The episode also spends time comparing Candid Camera to our online lives, how what we post is supposed to be candid, but often is the opposite, and how we are often left to read between the lines when we see people’s Instagram posts. I told my dad about this story and he immediately recommended I look up Allen Funt’s 1970 What Do You Say to a Naked Lady?, and I do not recommend you do the same.
🎙️My previous Tink clients Cam and KarenLee of Sex Talk With My Mom interviewed John Gabrus (High and Mighty, ActionBoyz, Raised by TV) and there isn’t a moment of the interview that isn’t 100% entertaining. Gabrus talks about losing his virginity (and getting a bloody nose,) and other NSFW stuff that is so joyous to hear, especially because the back-and-forths between Gabrus and KarenLee and Cam is so funny.
🎙️On Afraid of the Wrong Things, Hidden Brain explores how we process risk. Why are we more afraid of being attacked by a shark, when it is more likely we will die in a car accident? This makes no sense! Why are we more willing to donate to causes that actually impact fewer people? This makes no sense! Our brains are working with their own agendas, and it has a lot to do with what we believe we can control and how our actions make us feel.
🎙️Rough Translation is back, sharing stories of people who check off one box in one place, and another box in another. It’s truly what Rough Translation is all about. One of the stories is about a Brazilian woman who didn’t realize she wasn’t white until she attended school in the states. Brazil pops up on Rough Translation often—Brazilians don’t define race in the same way that Americans do. There can be both a positive and a negative, and these personal stories always give Americans a lot to think about when it comes to how we see race and how we identify ourselves and others.
🎙️I love you!